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Post by domenicaflor on Feb 11, 2004 21:54:47 GMT -5
I've been a fan of the original CSI since the beginning. I really enjoy watching William Petersen as Gil Grissom. He's a bit of a brainiac, but also has a shy self-effacing side, which appeals to me. (Yes, I am into Geek-chic.) Like Eames to Goren, Marg Helgenberger's Catherine Willows provides the grounded, human foil to Gil's intellect. I enjoy the ensemble aspect of the cast and feel that each member adds something unique to the show which would definitely be missing if they left. Granted, I have to suspend some disbelief watching some of the forensic techniques that clearly could not be accomplished in real life in such a short time frame, but I don't mind at all. I watch for the fun of having the team solve the crime. Thursday night is my night to kick back with a spirited beverage (or a coffee) and "chill with Gil" For any CSI fans out there, Season 3 on DVD is available to preorder from Amazon.Com, with an estimated ship date of 3/30/04. Domenica
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coth
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 78
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Post by coth on Feb 11, 2004 23:50:19 GMT -5
Dom, I hope you do not mind the abbreviation of your name but, I am still keyboard challenged.
I have seen various places where Grissom and Goren have been compared and mentioned as the same sort of intellect. I even browsed one web site that said LOCI was L&O's answer to CSI. You seem to have followed this show more closely than I have so I would like to know your thoughts on this.
When I first watched CSI, I saw Grissom as almost a Spockian character and I do not see Goren in that same vein. He (Goren) seems to me to be more in a pyschological/motivantional mode. In CSI, the evidence seems to be presented as the major concern, whereas, with LOCI the "why" rather than the "how", seems to be the most important. I do not believe I made the difference between my perception of the two shows very clear, but with CSI the "perp" is confronted with unassailible physical evidence (DNA, fingerprints, etc) which cannot be denied. With LOCI it takes a bit more to bring the guilty party to justice. The evidence leads to a certain person, but not totally conclusive without understanding the motivation, which Goren is unusally perceptive about.
I hope you will let me know what you think about this. BTW, I am very glad you are on this board.
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Post by domenicaflor on Feb 15, 2004 0:12:24 GMT -5
Dom, I hope you do not mind the abbreviation of your name but, I am still keyboard challenged. No problem, Coth. Various 'net buddies of mine prefer to shorten it because it's faster, so that's fine with me. Good to see you too, Coth. This looks like a cool board. When I first watched CSI, I saw Grissom as almost a Spockian character and I do not see Goren in that same vein. He (Goren) seems to me to be more in a pyschological/motivantional mode. I don't know how many people might be aware of this, but from what I can see Grissom took a definite character shift after the first 3-4 episodes of Season One. Since William Petersen is also one of the producers as well as the lead actor, it seems to me that he did a bit of a 180 with the character. (In interviews, he has stated that he likes to have Gil grow and change so he can learn him as he goes along.) The first few eps show Grissom as pushing the limits of quirkiness (eating bugs, asking co-workers for blood samples for research), acting rather cocky, and definitely wooing the ladies. Later, Petersen scaled back some of the quirkiness and spread it out over the next few seasons. Gil became quieter, more introspective, shyer, and was made more "Spockian" as you call it. In fact, in the episode with the autistic librarian, Nick even hints that Gil is partially autistic (I don't believe that to be the case, however.) I think a key difference in the two characterizations is the relationship the two men have in their jobs. Grissom is a supervisor, and by default, a teacher. While Spock in Star Trek struggled to deal with his human emotions as a half-Vulcan living among humans, what Gil is doing is trying to serve as an example to his supervisees (students) by separating his emotions from his job. He doesn't always succeed, as we see in episodes like "Gentle Gentle" where a baby's accidental death is covered up by the parents. Yet he recognizes at the same time the need for emotional connections to give his staff the drive they need to pursue the TEXT, which for him is the ultimate goal. Ever the scientist, Gil is constantly studying human actions and reactions and is fascinated by them on an intellectual plane, much like walking science projects. For Goren, I see TEXT as being the ultimate goal, which is not necessarily the truth. In eps like "The Faithful" and "Maledictus" he favors justice being served instead of the pure truth being told so that victims and loved ones are protected. Even more so than Grissom and Wiilows who are of unequal status, Goren and Eames are full partners who work almost as two people with one mind. They could fill in each other's sentences if they wanted to, and know exactly how to respond when they set up one of their "acts" to get information or trap a suspect. Part of what I saw so clearly during Eames' maternity leave was how she complemented Goren so perfectly. It is Eames who reminds Goren when to watch his own emotions on a case so he does not make critical mistakes ("Person of Interest"). Goren is a master observer of human nature and a good researcher. I see his observations of human behavior for one purpose: manipulation and motivation for the purpose of solving the crimes, in other words, not just for the pure sake of knowledge. When he brings up some obscure factoids, it is always related to the case, and it seems to me that on occasions he tries to downplay his intelligence and breadth of knowledge to not appear a smarmy know-it-all, especially in front of authority figures like Deakins and Carver. This is in direct contrast to Grissom, who is always punctuating his explanations with quotes and facts as a TEXTIn CSI, the evidence seems to be presented as the major concern, whereas, with LOCI the "why" rather than the "how", seems to be the most important. I do not believe I made the difference between my perception of the two shows very clear, but with CSI the "perp" is confronted with unassailible physical evidence (DNA, fingerprints, etc) which cannot be denied. With LOCI it takes a bit more to bring the guilty party to justice. The evidence leads to a certain person, but not totally conclusive without understanding the motivation, which Goren is unusally perceptive about.. I think you hit the nail perfectly on the head with your description of the differences. CSI is at its core mostly a fact and evidence based process where LOCI uses more interrogation skill to "seal the deal" of the confession. In addition, I would add something that Elena and some other people have mentioned on other boards: in LOCI, many of the criminals are presented as what Elena calls "mirror images" or reverse reflections of Goren. In other words, particularly with those criminals who have psychopathies that Goren personally can relate to, eg. troubled childhoods, abandonment by parents, etc., Bobby sees a piece of himself in those suspects in a moment of "there but for the grace of God go I...". There is much less of that type of self-reflection in CSI, and when there is, it is distributed among the team members, eg. Sara empathizing with women who are abused, Catherine getting angry when children are killed. Both shows, and both lead characters, take vastly different approaches to crime solving, and I love to watch both as the lead us from crime scene to resolution. Domenica
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Lilee
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 190
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Post by Lilee on Feb 15, 2004 14:31:59 GMT -5
I haven't watched an entire episode in a while now. I seem to always be eating a plate of spaghetti or bowl of soup whenever it comes on and, well, YUCK!
Here's my question: Did G. get surgery for his hearing loss? End of last season they were dealing with the illness which caused it and I caught the end of an ep. where he seemed to be at a School for the Deaf, maybe, and was 'speaking' some basic Sign Language with a woman. I assume he was taking lessons.
But pieces of episodes I've seen this season don't seem to be focusing at all on his hearing loss. Thus, my query about surgery.
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Post by domenicaflor on Feb 15, 2004 21:56:53 GMT -5
Yes, LilE. At the end of last season Grissom's hearing loss got bad enough to affect his work and he had the surgery. This season when they started up, he had normal hearing again. The only time they mentioned it was in the first show of this season when Gil hears Catherine's cell phone ring, she notices, and she is obviously relieved.
In the second season they did a show called "Sounds of Silence" where Grisson, Sara, and Warrick investigate the murder of student at the local college for the Deaf. He uses what I would call "signed English" (but I am not the right person to judge) and at the end of the show there is a whole segment performed with no spoken dialogue nor subtitles. William Petersen did a good job with it, I think. The actress who guest starred and played the director of the school was Deanne Bray.
I guess TPTB on CSI decided that the issue of Grissom's hearing was no longer relevant to the story line so they decided to correct it and move on.
Domenica
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Post by NikkiGreen on Feb 18, 2004 14:46:17 GMT -5
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Post by Kahlia on Mar 13, 2004 4:02:09 GMT -5
I really enjoy CSI... I think that it is unfortunate that Billy Petersen is leaving the show in about 2 years. I enjoy all of the casts acting, i think that they are very good at what they do. I think that Gris and Sara would be a good match. -Kahlia
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Post by domenicaflor on Apr 15, 2004 0:31:27 GMT -5
I just got my CSI Season 3 DVD in the mail. Wahoo! It has 23 episodes total, with audio commentaries of 6 eps. Plus, there are 5 features: CSI Tour - Police Station CSI Shot - Making it Real Writers' Room - Interviews with the writers CSI Season Three overview Crime Scene Field Kit It has English and Spanish surround sound. Now That's a DVD. I hope the LOCI DVD production team takes notice and give us the good stuff in the next DVD. Especially interviews with the writers.Domenica
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Post by Mel4of5 on May 3, 2004 7:02:59 GMT -5
In one ep -- not a recent one -- Nick was chosen as 'Lead CSI' over Sara. Now Nick seems to have moved up to being more a partner with Gil. Good move, I think. The solid, 'normal' Nick has become a strong center around which all the other strange characters revolve. I don't mean that Gil has become less important, just less wierd and other-worldly. Compared to Goren, Eames, Deakins and Carver, the CSI characters -- except for Nick -- seem rather wispy, translucent, with a touch that's just too light.
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Post by NikkiGreen on Jul 15, 2004 20:43:50 GMT -5
Well, no more Nick and Sara. According to variety.com........... EYE AXES 'CSI' DUO Moonves gets tough
Blood is on the floor at "CSI": CBS has fired thesps George Eads and Jorja Fox from the hit Eye drama for breach of contract.
Eye toppers Leslie Moonves and Nancy Tellem, apparently drawing a line in their sand, made the decision after Eads -- looking for a pay hike -- failed to show up to work Thursday, the first day of production on the new season of the skein.
Full Story at: www.variety.com/
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Post by domenicaflor on Jul 16, 2004 9:36:24 GMT -5
Shit. This sucks. I think Jorja Fox is cool. Maybe this is why they were planning to promote the character of Greg Sanders to Junior CSI?
Here's the CNN.COM article from today:
***************************** Reports: 'CSI' actors fired Fox and Eads let go for breach of contract, sources say
LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Two stars of the CBS hit television series "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" were fired for breach of contract, KCBS-TV and Variety reported Thursday.
Actors Jorja Fox and George Eads, who play investigators Sara Sidle and Nick Stokes, were fired after asking for more money to stay on the show, according to the reports.
Danica Smith, publicist for both Fox and Eads, told The Associated Press that Fox was fired Wednesday but did not have details. Smith could not confirm whether Eads was fired.
A CBS spokesman said the network had no comment.
Eads didn't show up for work Thursday, the first day of production for the next season, according to the news station and Variety, which posted a story on its Web site Thursday.
The actors were in the fifth of their seven-year contracts.
Though a search was under way for their replacements, it's unclear whether show creators will recast the characters or develop new ones, the reports said.
The show picked up four Emmy nominations Thursday, including one for best drama series. **********************************
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jaquetta
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 171
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Post by jaquetta on Jul 16, 2004 14:36:51 GMT -5
Wow. Shades of Suzanne Somers back in the day.
And William Petersen always saying Jorja is their good luck charm, or something along those lines. Guess the romance isn't going to pan out.
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Post by Kahlia on Jul 17, 2004 3:26:59 GMT -5
WP Petersen made a comment saying that he was very disappointed in the recent events, he hopes that it all blows over. I cannot believe that they would do something like that and still think that they are going to get the same ratings by REPLACING them. WTF?? I HATE CBS... i can't see why they would want to so this. JF changed her mind about leaving the show but CBS still fired her... -Kahlia
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Post by NikkiGreen on Jul 22, 2004 15:47:31 GMT -5
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Post by domenicaflor on Sept 24, 2004 8:56:03 GMT -5
Did anyone tape the season premiere of CSI Original? Like a total doofus, I ran out to evening class and forgot to set the VCR! ACK!!!! CSI is my next favorite to LOCI. If you taped it, please send me a PM and maybe we can do a tape trade. Thanks, D. the Doofus
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