Post by Summerfield on Oct 11, 2005 10:13:49 GMT -5
Used to be, Eames' snarks were clever and timely. Now it seems the writers say: "insert snark here relevant or not." She's gone from snarky to almost B***hy. Several times during "Prisoner" I thought she was down right condesending to Goren ("look books and not everyone needs to show off.) Obviously they've given her a bigger role, but they've toughened her up to the point where she hardly resembles the Eames of the past. Even her wardrobe and hairstyle are tougher, which ain't necessarily a good thing.
Mimi, I didn't see Goren being a parody of himself as much as I saw the old upbeat, quirky Goren <--the one I like best Some like the reserved, moody, broody Goren ... again, to each their own.
I don't see the writers writing for any of us. I think Goren using the delivery guy act to get a look in the house before SWAT pulled in was done to fit the story, not to make the VDO fans squeal (though making the fans happy is never a bad thing, is it?) Goren was playing the part to the hilt; but that's something he has shown since the first season that he loves to do (remember the shoe store in Anti-Thesis and his dancing for Eames in Unrequited) and he really nailed the part of the kind of person who does that kind of work, including the wardrobe.
I don't think that he said the exact same line about noticing things out of pattern before, but the subject of patterns was covered well enough in Probability for the regular audience to know for sure that he's got a knack for it. I took him telling the guy that he's good with patterns to elicit information about Vick/Mitch (i.e., is he good with patterns? Was he a friend who caught your mistakes? Are you protecting him because he helped you?)
I also consider the little bits like Doctor's Stern and Boreman to be a little treat for the regular viewers. There are other little things they throw in from time to time, like the picture on the wall of the car from Cherry Red, and Eames showing a mug shot of Rene Balcer as a "leg breaker," for the Russian mob in Blink. I think it's funny, and I hope they keep doing it
The big problem I had with the dance scene wasn't that it was out of character for Goren but totally useless given the circumstances. Instead of having the "undercover" effect, Goren drew attention to himself for nothing. Usually people who deliver fliers are paid by the number of fliers they hand out. So that dance had no relevance to the scene and for me was done for nothing since there were nobody in the house.
As for the clothing, yeah you're right.
I'm all for pleasing the fans but not at any cost. Although I do prefer the quirky Goren over the dark and gloomy one, I believed that scene spoke too loud for the effect it required. Unlike the "SIT" scene where it was completely in tune.
The little bits from previous episodes are, like you said, a treat, for the long time viewers. What I don't want to expect from a CI episode is a "CI for dummies" scene where the characters show personality traits that we've come to enjoy but multiplied by 10 to make sure that everybody got the allusion.
Last Edit: Oct 11, 2005 11:25:17 GMT -5 by mimi1802
Yeah, you might be going nuts. I, however, have been there for years, so WELCOME! ;D
I see your point about him drawing attention instead of being undercover, but he didn't know the house was empty. What if it wasn't? What if someone was watching, or waiting at the door when he got there? Then he's just a kooky nut delivering flyer's the way a kooky nut would ;D Not someone you would consider a threat or shoot at, right?
I think you're right that it wasn't needed for the plot and story. It was even a bit over the top, but I'll gladly take over the top weird over detached and gloomy any day
I have to gently disagree--I found this episode to have some of the humor that was missing from Season 3 and 4 (mind you, I liked a lot of Season 3 and 4). I found Eames to be snarky, and not B***hy--her remark about the books was both funny and got Goren to do something useful when he was clearly becoming frustrated.
As for the "dancing mailman"--I thought Goren was drawing attention to himself in order to draw attention away from himself. Let me explain--many people are disturbed to encounter mentally ill people, or even people just engaging in what seems to be odd behavior. They try to ignore it. There's no way, usually, that Goren can hide--he's just too big. By adopting a larger than life personality, he can hide within it.
Most people seem to have caught that Goren was delivering flyers, but I feel the need to stress that. He was not pretending to be a US mailman.
I loved the dancing Goren, found it to be a little long but I do agree with Petcat. I think it was used by Goren to diffuse a probable situation that a convicted felon on the run might throw at the team.
I haven't seen all the eps and what drives me loopy is that they do not give the titles of the eps druring broadcast for I would love to see the Zoo episode. I did catch the off hand look that Eames gave Goren when he introduced them as the doctors, but I had no idea why. Thanks for making mention of it, I take it that the good doctors were actually very demented and or just bad?
Post by Summerfield on Oct 11, 2005 13:44:17 GMT -5
Patcat wrote: "I found Eames to be snarky, and not B***hy--her remark about the books was both funny and got Goren to do something useful when he was clearly becoming frustrated."
Yeah, but when was the last time Goren was so frustrated? He's usually taken his frustration out on a bulletin board, the hood of a car or with a wadded up piece of paper thrown at an empty chair. But I don't recall him ever getting to the point where he wasn't useful. He's always found something to look at or fondle. I thought it unnecessary for Eames to point something out to him that in the past he would have noticed on his own. I don't know, but it felt "Monkish" to me.
On the other hand, I agree totally with what you said about the dancing Goren.
I am sorry, but I struggle with the dance for the delivery boy or postman. I don’t have a problem with Goren being quirky. It’s just that I don’t really remember the last time he went undercover. Was it the Pilgrim episode? And this episode he went undercover twice. I loved the Zoonotic references. Maybe if they didn’t have him going undercover in two different scenes. I wouldn’t be asking the question are they just doing that to please the fans. I lost my focus on the story, the crime. I just felt that the dance was to say…Isn’t Goren cute. He is. I got a bigger charge out of him walking in the opening credits with the rest of the stars. I love his walk. I think its sexy on him .
I liked the ending when they told Jenny she was free to go. And the revelation that came to her.
“It’s like you got yesterday, today and tomorrow, all in the same room. There’s no telling, what can happen”.... Billy, "I’m Not There"
While the "dancing Goren" made me cringe a bit, it was more in, oh, what a dork, than it being out of character for him. In fact, it was really in character. I just wish they'd bring back all his "buddies". I miss them.
Eames didn't strike me as B***hy at all. She's much more sure of herself and of Bobby at this point. She might have just seen the books before Goren had a chance to, considering the angle she was at, or she might have merely anticpated what she would expect her partner to be looking for.
I just wish the writers would write for me.
I liked the show. I'd heard about the story it was based on, but the "ripping from the headlines" didn't annoy me at all, which it normally does. Maybe because there were enough twists to it.
As for the "dancing mailman"--I thought Goren was drawing attention to himself in order to draw attention away from himself...There's no way, usually, that Goren can hide--he's just too big. By adopting a larger than life personality, he can hide within it.
As in, hide in plain sight.
I agree the seemingly dorky/hokey dance sequence was designed to diminish Det. Goren as any kind of a threat if someone was inside the house. I didn't get any sense he was presented in that manner to make him more appealing or "cuter" to the TV audience. Far from it.
Patrick Roy, 2006 inductee into the Hockey Hall of Fame
I didn’t place it at first, because I’m not familiar with that particular song. But NicoleMarie’s question got me to Google it, and I certainly recognized Stephen Foster’s name... and not in a good way.
No, it’s not an old plantation song. Stephen Foster wrote a number of songs in that style, and they’re the equivalent of the white vaudeville performers who used to put on blackface and do their version of dumb ‘colored folk’ for the amusement of other whites.
So I’m completely at a loss as to why Goren would have been singing this song.
Someone on the Reelblog said that “Bye-bye Blackbird” was the song in the script. If they’re right, then someone – either the writers or D’Onofrio (though I understand that ad-libs are rare on this series) – changed it somewhere along the way. The question is, why?
I’ll grant you that an obscure song from the 1800s would not be a strange thing for Goren to be singing. It’s the particular song, and the particular writer, that I question. Goren would certainly understand the sociological context of that song, and casual racism is completely out of character for him. Why would the writers throw in a song like that? And if D’Onofrio came up with it, it’s even stranger. Racism is the last thing I would expect out of him.
I just don’t get it.
If there is a literary reference, or other context, that makes sense out of this, I wish someone would enlighten me.