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Post by trisha on Oct 11, 2006 8:11:34 GMT -5
Ronni, it's a totally different type of violence, and while I don't applaud it, no, it didn't disgust me. It was the gory and sexualized violence of the other episodes, combined with the stalker cam that were a huge turn off for me.
Could the mystery have been solved without the fighting? Yes. It was not plot essential. It just gave it that personal touch that the writers are aiming for this season. I doubt that Mikey will be getting in fist fights to open every show, but the stalker cam and gory, sexualized violence was in 3 eps in a row. It seemed to be a new trend, and maybe still is, we'll have to wait to see how the season progresses. I hope the writers are keeping track of how upset many fans are by it and are adjusting the eps they're working on to rid them of this tv pop culture scourge. The CSI's can't get rid of that stuff, because they have weak plots and need the titillation. CI does not need it. Never did. And it's certainly not making the show any more appealing.
Metella, look at Ross' white board in his office. Not only are the columns separated by color, but he's got some colored magnets marking names. I don't know what for ... days off? cases being worked? I don't know. But he's definitely got a system at work in there that's much more sophisticated than what Deakins had. Also, no clutter. Deakins had clutter galore.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Oct 11, 2006 8:13:10 GMT -5
I almost missed it. Unlike LociFan I realized that CI was on 3 seconds before it began. The beating was a little too much for me! Although it made me smile to watch Logan get his ass kicked! Some might say it had it coming. And then we got one of the biggest Logan mystery settled...It's boxers ladies!!! Completely useless scene, however...nope...completely useless scene! I too enjoyed the reverse storyline, yet I don't think it's innovative at all. CSI does it all the time, but it's in the style that CI made it different. Unlike CSI who uses it in order to explain the howdunnit, CI used it in a more narrative way, which made it interesting. I felt the episode was well-balanced between dramatic and light moments. I had to laugh when I saw this 52 year old cop, with at least 20 pounds to lose, chasing this 16 year old teenager! When I saw the flight of stairs Logan had to climb, I was thinking the dude wouldn't make it. It's convenient that the teenager got lost, cos there was no way Logan would have caught him. Also anyone caught how big Logan's file looked in comparison with Wheelers, that alone made the episode for me! On the dramatic side, I thought that the whole spectrum of emotions homosexuality can bring was tackled in the episode: the closet homosexual who wants live in the open and can't, the unfounded anger some people feel towards them, etc. I can't say if it was done in a respectful manner though. I had a sense that a lot of clichés were used. But I'm in no position to comment. I wish someone who lives/lived it could provide a better analysis than mine. So, the stuff that are bugging me since the beginning are still there, but I'm giving CI a fair chance!
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Oct 11, 2006 9:09:46 GMT -5
I LOVED the discrepency in the size of their files on the end of the conference room table!! There does seem to be a lot of humor tucked into the L/W episodes here and there. Loved the look on Mike's face when the long hair guy motioned up the steps after the kid he was chasing. And them not knowing how to refer to "Chanteuse" ...
And while I too noted that Wheeler didn't get all scrappy into the fight, I think there was more to it -- she did get into the fray initially, but when it started to get really out of hand, much the way Eames left the room during last weeks hostage situation in the study, I think she was trying to step away, to call for backup and try and keep things from escalating as much as she could.
And I liked the little scence between Logan and Wheeler in the hospital room. Some good character dynamics going on. "I don't need either a fight or an apology." Great line. And interestingly, it didn't seem to phase either of them that he was sitting around in his underwear. There is no way I see that scence being played out between Goren and Eames... ;0)
And the whole partner dynamic was interesting at the beginning of the "hearing" when Wheeler didn't want to say what happened and Logan essentally told her it was OK to talk with just one word! Nice stuff.
I am eager to run my tape back and give it another look so I can get the whole chronology in my head after all the flashing back etc, but all in all a pretty solid episode. Got the adrenaline going at the outset, had a rather interesting take on flipping the bad guy, we got to see Mikey in his underwear ... (smile) ... what's not to like! (except maybe that whole fade to red teaser ending, a bit silly that)!
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Oct 11, 2006 9:13:45 GMT -5
OH... and any interesting takes on the title? I came up with like one and half... The FDNY shield is in the basic shape of a Maltese Cross. Also, a Maltese Cross is made up of four triangles, a shape which has some history in the gay world -- nazi's/pink triangles -- but that may be over-thinking things (hee hee)
didn't get all academic and find out more about the knights of Malta, but there could be something there...
anyone?
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 11, 2006 9:44:00 GMT -5
So violence is okay for some episodes, and not others? This was every bit as violent as the others. Which I personally don't have a problem with. So what, this time it's okay? My take is that the violence on CI has changed for no reason other than to titilate the audience. The CSI shows have always done this. They are obsessed with the gadgets and gizmos used to unearth the hows of a murder and the violence is just another graphic way of showing how the killing is done. It's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of the CSI shows. CI has always been more about the whys of a killing. Graphic depictions of violence haven't been what the show is all about. So when they get more graphic for no apparent reason, and especially when the images of violence are sexualized, I find that a cheap ploy. This episode continued CI's more graphic style of depicting violence, and I'm not fond of it. But since it seems to be one of the "stylistic" changes in this season's take on the series, I doubt I'll comment on it every episode. But it doesn't mean I like it.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 11, 2006 12:50:31 GMT -5
it wasn't bad. I was thrilled probably because of the lack of intent part. That is why i got hooked on LO:ci in the first place. This seemed more like an episode from the mothership but with a much more in your feel to the plot. Less thinking on my part as a viewer which I kind of miss. Also I didn't understand the massive firefighter's motivation at the end to help Logan (who he just finished kicking the c#$@p out of) by going into a major case interview room and declaring his love for the other guy on a recorded line and through a two-way mirror? Why would he help Logan out to begin with and why would he 'out' himself, in the lion's den, so to speak, if the whole plot rested on the 'closeted gay' bit?
Maybe I missed something. Not bad though.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Oct 11, 2006 13:18:45 GMT -5
If you missed something Sirenna, I missed it too because I didn't get why the firefighter who was the most pissed off at Logan in the beginning was suddenly so cooperative.
I also didn't quite get the initial reason for the beating. So the ending didn't ring true at all to me, especially for the unconvincing performance by Charlie the firefighter in the "I'm gay, we loved each other and I killed him" role.
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lomesir22
Rookie
Edward Cullen or Bobby Goren? Now THAT is hard.
Posts: 11
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Post by lomesir22 on Oct 11, 2006 13:40:56 GMT -5
Haha, I forgot about CI until I was in the shower three minutes until it began. I think there was still soap in my hair when I got out.
This episode is yet another one that is really hard to define. I've never really liked Logan, but this ep made me respect him a little bit more. Wheeler was as good as she could be; she knew that she would help no one by getting into the brawl. I have no problems with her. May she continue to grow into a dynamic character.
I really enjoyed the way the plot was laid out for us, in little flashbacks. I'm glad they did the whole thing backward. The "meat" of the story wouldn't have been enough to hold me if I didn't know how it would result (the brawl).
All in all, a very good episode.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 11, 2006 13:43:34 GMT -5
Inicdentally I just watched an re-run of an episode of csi: miami. the killer was an ex-marine sniper who couldn't stop randomly shooting people. When Horatio was arresting him...oh, excuse me, when Horatio was ordering his underlings to arrest him, he asked Horatio: "Don't you want to know why?" Horatio said: "because your a loser, a washout, evil? I don't car why?"
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vdofan1
Silver Shield Investigator
Made ya look....
Posts: 178
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Post by vdofan1 on Oct 11, 2006 13:47:52 GMT -5
Overall, I like this episode much more than the previous L/W episode. Wheeler still has a long way to go to grow into her position as a detective in Major Case. We haven't seen someone so new and raw before. I'm sure we'll see her make a lot of mistakes along the way. She's bound to make some wrong choices along the way. That's what I'm finding interesting about her character.
How much street experience does she have? How long has she been on the force? I'm not exactly sure what her story is, other than she worked undercover for Ross.
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 11, 2006 13:49:42 GMT -5
Sounds interesting.Is it possible that LOCI is reflecting our world back to us and its not a pretty sight?Logan and Goren are struggling against a cultural decline or moral disorder ,the frayed ends of patriarchy? That's an interesting interpretation, janethyland! My own is less abstract in that it's more the frayed ends of Criminal Intent that we're seeing. A wonderful idea rung out past the capacity of the creative team to maintain its excellence. But since Crim Intent is a commercial enterprise, contortions of all kinds will be tried in order to get every last penny out of the product before it's put to rest. From a fan's perspective, I'd rather not watch the mutilation. And, when House comes back, I don't think I will, at least not on Tuesdays. I'll wait and catch them in reruns. And, who knows, maybe there'll be a gem here and there amidst the rubble.
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Post by SarahIvy on Oct 11, 2006 13:51:20 GMT -5
My take on the Big Burly Firefighter: In the beginning, the Brawl, he was reacting to Logan coming into his firehouse and insulting one of his Brothers. A murdered Brother who was a hero, with a pregnant wife. When Logan approaches him to help later, Big Burly Firefighter can see that the cops have done their best to do right by his Brother. He isn't gay, but he agrees to pretend to be for the purposes of helping to catch the man who killed his Brother. Essentially, he's a bit of a brute, but a good man, and wants to do what is best for a fallen brother and his widow. So violence is okay for some episodes, and not others? This was every bit as violent as the others. Which I personally don't have a problem with. So what, this time it's okay? Basically what Trisha said. The first three episodes all had one kind of violence...very heightened, unrealistic, sexualized violence. This episode just had some graphic down and dirty fighting. Violent? Yeah, but with a MUCH different feel, and for me, far less offensive. Oh, and Trisha, I too noticed and loved Ross' super organized color-coded case board in his office. It was epic
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 11, 2006 13:52:28 GMT -5
Inicdentally I just watched an re-run of an episode of csi: miami. the killer was an ex-marine sniper who couldn't stop randomly shooting people. When Horatio was arresting him...oh, excuse me, when Horatio was ordering his underlings to arrest him, he asked Horatio: "Don't you want to know why?" Horatio said: "because your a loser, a washout, evil? I don't car why?" LOL!!! ;D I hate to say it, but I can picture Logan saying something to that effect. (Though with a lot more charm than Horatio!!)
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Post by caseyswife on Oct 11, 2006 13:58:27 GMT -5
I was still a bit high on Demerol and Ativan from my three day hospital stay, but I have to say that I really liked it. Logan is back to the smart ass - in your face guy that we saw on the Mothership, but with a bit more maturity and control. Wheeler at least has a sense of humor about her "green-ness" and takes Logan's little asides in stride. (Loved when he took the chips from her across the desk and handed her the keys for the drive to Philly.) During the brawl, I remember Logan actually telling her to stay down, so I think she did the best she could. And Ross - I am liking that guy more and more with every episode. Great interaction with the detectives and the brass. Best line: "Don't make me climb up that tree..." I almost fell off the couch laughing. (Well, the drugs didn't hurt either!) caseyswife
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 11, 2006 14:35:15 GMT -5
my favourite line was when they were both at the hearing sporting black eyes and one of the captains asks what happend. Logan looks to wheeler for an explanation!
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