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Post by Metella on Oct 11, 2006 14:49:00 GMT -5
Yeah, the duel black eyes were great.
Did Logan tell her to stay down?
Here again, I say if she went through cop training - yes indeed there is much that a female her size can do & in a situation like that, no matter if Logan says stays out of it or not - I perceive it as her duty to rumble. A civilian, sure - maybe not much she could have done; but a cop - she could have started peeling off the layers at least.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Oct 11, 2006 15:05:17 GMT -5
Another element I enjoyed in this episode is the scene where Logan is watching the 2 recordings and realizes that both men are wearing the same tie.
That scene reminded me of One where Goren catches the girl's glitch. I know it's not on the same level, but still, I like characters who pay attention to details.
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Ronni
Silver Shield Investigator
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Post by Ronni on Oct 11, 2006 16:52:09 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me where all the sexualized violence was in Siren Call? The girl was killed by her father, there was nothing sexual about it at all. And when the father killed himself, you really hardly saw anything but some blood go flying. Not graphic at all. It was more needed in this story than the violence in the Maltese one. Seems kinda like a double standard.
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Post by Summerfield on Oct 11, 2006 17:27:22 GMT -5
By the way, it was the stepfather. And I think we're referring to the gratutious "in your face" camera angle visual violence. I'm reminded of a scene from "Stray" when the ME took a sample from the nose of the dead victim. The camera honed in on that particular movement and focused on the "slow motion" of the gesture. I think, or would hope, when we complain about the violence, we're reacting to the production/camera shots of said.
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Ronni
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 99
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Post by Ronni on Oct 11, 2006 17:38:07 GMT -5
Yes, I know it was the stepfather. And I still don't see the difference, camera angle, gratutious or not.
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Post by SarahIvy on Oct 11, 2006 18:09:39 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me where all the sexualized violence was in Siren Call? The girl was killed by her father, there was nothing sexual about it at all. And when the father killed himself, you really hardly saw anything but some blood go flying. Not graphic at all. It was more needed in this story than the violence in the Maltese one. Seems kinda like a double standard. Ronni, the opening had what I would personally call "sexualized" violence. As in, violence that is fancied up and made to look slick and sensual. The way they concentrated the "Stalker Cam" in on the young girl in her revealing outfit, panning over her bare midriff and legs.....ugh. Sexualized. In the stylistic sense of trying to grab the audience by making the crime titillating, not literally containing sex. There's quite a bit of discussion of it in the Siren Call thread. I'll take a frank graphic fight scene over sexualized violence any day.
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Post by Techguy on Oct 11, 2006 18:45:25 GMT -5
Ronni, others have already said what I was going to about why the violence in "Maltese Cross" is way different from what was shown in "Siren Call." In SC the violence was sexualized and GLORIFIED, with stalker cam shots of the soon-to-be victim, lingering over her short skirt and midriff, and the graphic way the murder was treated. Then, the grand finale with the killer cop's suicide, and brain and bone fragments airborne--excuse me, but this is way over the top for CI. In MC there was no sexualization, no glorification of the violence. It's an entirely different ballgame.
And take it from me, a guy who was in his share of fist fights and brawls in his youth. They're not in the same league as seeing someone firing a gun into his chin, right there on the TV screen. No way, no how. That's why I gave "Siren Call" an F and "Maltese Cross" an A. They are worlds apart in the nature and scope of the violence and how it was handled.
Back to Wheeler's lack of support for Logan--I also recall him telling her to stay down, but I still don't buy why she didn't make more of an effort to go to his aid. She's a COP--green and inexperienced maybe, but if she earned the right to an MCS assignment, she better watch Logan's back. And if the burly firefighters knocked her down, then after calling for help (which only takes a few seconds) she should have tried everything in her power by whatever means--kicking, scratching, clawing--to at least make some EFFORT to help her partner.
I don't buy the idea that Wheeler's intervention would have made matters worse. Logan was taking a pounding anyway so even if she wouldn't have made much difference in the outcome, I would have more respect for her if she at least TRIED to help. And for sure I don't buy into the excuse that she's of small stature, a WOMAN? Well, haven't we advanced farther than that outdated notion? She screwed up, plain and simple, and her lapse should have been addressed with some acknowledgement between her and Logan. The hospital scene would have been the ideal time.
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 11, 2006 18:51:25 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me where all the sexualized violence was in Siren Call? Ronni, The way the girl's murder in Siren Call was sexualized was in how it was portrayed. First, we're shown lingering shots of her bare mid-rif, bare legs, revealing outfit, etc... Basically, a sexy girl, dressed to turn people on. To titillate by arousal. In fact, she is arousing the guys she's with. They clearly want to have sex with her. That is then immediately followed by the graphic depiction of her her being strangled. The sexualization of the violence is in the way the images are shown and how they're cut together. It implies very strongly that there's a direct link between sexual arousal and violence toward women. In that teaser, the completion of the "orgasm" (speaking only metaphorically here) is not sex, but the violent murder of the sex object. It is all the more disturbing because as you pointed out, there was no sexual motivation to the killing whatsoever. The way the violence was sexualized served no plot purpose and was simply there to titillate the audience, to allow the audience to "get off" on her murder. This kind of sexualized violence is all over. Check out any version of C.S.I. or Criminal Minds or a whole long list of other shows, and it's pretty easy to find. To contrast a different kind of violence that CI is indulging in this season, I'd point to an example from Tru Luv. In that episode, I wouldn't say the violence was sexualized, but I did think the kid's dad ending up skewered on that fence was gratuitous gore. It served no plot point. There were a million ways the guy could've been thrown from his motorcycle to his death without that kind of gore and viewers would still have gotten the point that the guy died when his motorcycle siezed up. Overall, this season CI is using violence in ways that it hasn't before. They're using more of it, what they're showing is more graphic, it has been blatantly sexualized, and they're using it when it's gratuitous to the plot. That's what troubles me about the violence I'm seeing on the show. I'm sure not everyone is bothered by it, and I'm also sure that they're trying it out because conventional television "wisdom" says it's a proven way to get more viewers to tune in. I don't consider myself a prude, but I do find it jarring and distasteful when a show that has never found it necessary to pull that kind of cheap trick in order to tell compelling, psychologically complex stories ends up going that route. Okay, that was my 2¢. Well, maybe a nickel's worth.
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Post by trisha on Oct 11, 2006 18:54:47 GMT -5
Ronni, I'm just going to quote Observer, because she really explained it well: "Sexualized images of a woman, linked directly with explicit images of violence against her. Where the hell is Dr. Dietz? Is there no one left on this show who has read any data on the possible consequences of linking those kinds of images? Or are those risks viewed as less important than the hopes of reeling in a few more easily bored, adrenaline-junkie viewers? Or have such images become so normalized to TPTB that they don’t even realized they’ve crossed a line? Do they just think it’s more artsy? Please, lose the stalker cam... but if you insist on keeping it, stick with adrenaline only, as in Blind Spot when Eames was abducted. Because I’ll tell you what, anyone who writes about the psychological origins of crime for a living shouldn’t have to be told that there is information out there about the effects of linking sexualized images with violence! And they should, by damn, care more about that than about whether they can use that kind of combination to pull in a few more ratings points." In this episode, the violence was adrenaline only. I would rather the show not go there either, but they seem think they need it all the sudden. I hope they're not connecting the ratings increase from being in a safer time slot with these base CSI tactics. No, they wouldn't be THAT naive, would they? If they are, they're in for a very rude awakening when the show is up against House in a few weeks. I don't even like that show, and I'd choose it over watching an irresponsible and tragically perverted version of CI. eta: I see you beat me to it, LOCIfan, and very nicely put, too
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Post by cindylouwho on Oct 11, 2006 19:01:29 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me where all the sexualized violence was in Siren Call? Ronni, The way the girl's murder in Siren Call was sexualized was in how it was portrayed. It implies very strongly that there's a direct link between sexual arousal and violence toward women. In that teaser, the completion of the "orgasm" (speaking only metaphorically here) is not sex, but the violent murder of the sex object. that says it all. violence as a form of orgasm is sexualized violence.
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Post by Techguy on Oct 11, 2006 19:17:26 GMT -5
Yes, the part I suggested but others completed--what's so offensive about the "Siren Call" violence is the linkage between the sexual titillation of the stalker cam shots and the subsequent graphic violent murder, implying the release--the "orgasm"--is not sex but the violence itself. It's disgusting and inexcusable for CI to stoop to this level of CSI-like tactics.
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Ronni
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 99
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Post by Ronni on Oct 11, 2006 19:43:05 GMT -5
Sorry, just don't agree. That's my opinion.
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 11, 2006 19:58:18 GMT -5
Ronni, Differing opinions are par for the course here. No problem there. But I am curious to know what your opinion is. I'm also a little confused, because I misunderstood you and thought you were genuinely asking for clarification about sexualized violence and how it differs from both graphic and gratuitous violence in the various episodes of this season. But I take it you were being rhetorical? I am interested in the "double standard" you referred to earlier. Could you clarify your opinion for me? (I'm not being rhetorical.)
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Post by goreamesfan on Oct 11, 2006 20:07:34 GMT -5
I guess I should post this on the Siren Call page, but since we're talking about it here, I'll say that I thought the sexualized images of the young girl in Siren Call served as an intentional red herring to make viewers think the crime was sex-based, when it wasn't. So I don't see it as completely gratuitous.
I have not been that bothered by the violence -- sexualized or otherwise -- but maybe because it IS everywhere these days.
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 11, 2006 20:15:20 GMT -5
I have not been that bothered by the violence -- sexualized or otherwise -- but maybe because it IS everywhere these days. I don't think you're alone at all in your opinion, goreamesfan. While I might not even bother to comment on the nature of violence portrayed in many other shows, it's the fact that CI has been very measured and deliberate in the way it uses violence -- sexualized or otherwise -- to tell its stories. So the change in how they're now using violence stands out.
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