peachybc
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 109
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Post by peachybc on Jan 3, 2007 6:41:23 GMT -5
This one was good for a single viewing, but it didn't hold my interest...I just felt like the same subject matter has been done before and done better....in fact, wasn't there a Mothership episode some years ago that dealt with a brother committing an honor killing/murder of his sister? I recall that being a very gripping hour of television (I *still* remember the grieving mother incredibly clearly), whereas this one I found myself making jewelry, feeding the dogs, and wanting to wander around. I guess my grousing is because I find the subject matter they were dealing with fascinating and disturbing, but I feel like I've seen it dealt with in a more gripping way elsewhere. I wasn't drawn in by any of the characters in a personal way, no one made much of an impression. SarahIvy, I almost quoted your entire post and just said Ditto! lol What bothered me is that this episode is a recycled one from the original L&O -- story premise, perp and motive. AND apparently SVU has done this story as well. I don't watch SVU so I can't speak to that. All three L&O's doing the same story?? Knowing the recycled story beforehand didn't make happy. There wasn't anything new to the CI spin on this story (only minor changes) and the characters didn't involve me. I found myself disappointed and bored. That's not a good thing. I've come to expect more from CI...until this year that is.
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 3, 2007 7:54:44 GMT -5
I haven't seen the mothership or SVU episodes that you refer to so this still seems quite fresh to me. Frankly I'm always amazed that the shows don't have more similairty in plots since they do churn out so many episodes. It's one of the reasons why I like Weeping Willow. Now that I haven't seen anywhere else before.
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doctorj
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 92
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Post by doctorj on Jan 3, 2007 8:59:37 GMT -5
i agree with trisha. the melange of racial identities was overwhelming. and it felt like some of those identities were selected and set in place for educational purposes. like paper cut-outs on a blackboard. in other words, it seemed like the aim of the epi was to teach us a lesson, not to tell us a story.
i'm as nerdy as the next person, but i get uncomfortable when hollywood tries to teach me something. case in point: "crash." i loved the fact that this movie was about something, but i didn't love being clobbered with the movie's message. isn't there a way to tell stories about meaningful subjects with resorting to didactics?
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Post by madger on Jan 3, 2007 9:14:33 GMT -5
Well, on first viewing, I liked it. Yes, there were many cliches, but the characters were all well rounded and sympathetic, except for Romeo's mama, someone should have dunked her head in a toilet for a couple of hours. Sure it's been done before, but this time we get to see the problem from everyone's point of view, not just an in your face "this is bad", but a "why and how it happens" also. And like everybody else, I'm really liking Logan/Wheeler, what a difference from the Hat Lady.
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 3, 2007 9:21:24 GMT -5
It was preachy but I thought it could have been much more so but the writers took some pains to be restrained. Not as many as Rene would have. I think he would have done a couple more re-writes to make it a bit more subtle.I miss that guy but I'm working with what I have.
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Jan 3, 2007 9:23:57 GMT -5
I thought this was a pretty solid episode with great performances by the guest stars, but I did find myself wondering why it seems that Logan and Wheeler are catching all the "audio-visual" oriented perps... lots of film students this season for them it seems... ;0)
I guess since they re-did the video room at Major Case, its good to trot out the technology!!
And of COURSE Ross would know all about the World's Fairgrounds ... NYC buff that he is!!
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Post by gidget on Jan 3, 2007 9:24:46 GMT -5
I also really really liked this episode. I'm enjoying the fact that Logan is growing in such subtle ways this season, and Wheeler is much more enjoyable to me now than she was in the beginning. The overall theme was a bit depressing and dramatic but I find CI has been doing a remarkable job this year of producing episodes that make you think and want to discuss them afterwards- and that's what makes a great L&O episode to me.
I loved Logan's obvious distaste for the blatant racism shown on both sides, and his moment in interrogation with the boyfriend was fantastic. Even the whole climax with Wheeler playing the victim was powerful- how the brother really believed she was his sister at the end. I thought it was a fantastic episode really.
And I have seen the Mothership's version as well as SVU's. I think CI really put it's own spin on it- showing us the human side of the crime - which is what CI is all about.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Jan 3, 2007 11:43:33 GMT -5
I thought the episode demonstrated very well how cultures only coexist; living a parallel existence without knowing or having the desire to know about how others live or think. It was the perfect example of: "They" have a right to be there; as long as they are not in my backyard.
Mina and his brother also well represented how the second generation of immigrants gets caught between a rock and a hard place. Mina was more americanized (if you allow me the term) as opposed to her brother who seemed more attached to the Pakistanis culture.
Unlike some posters, I was annoyed by the use and abuse of clichés and found the episode to be constructed similarly to a Dateline segment; which is not what I want to see on a fictional television program. Someone stated on the Anti-Thesis thread that people who enter Goren’s world rarely leave it wiser than before. I do believe that statement to be true in the fictional relationships between characters, but I expect, as a viewer, to gain something new out of the experience, which in this case I didn’t. The story didn't bring anything new to the table.
I also felt that everyone in MCS was overtaken by the situation. Ross, Logan and Wheeler seem to always be one step behind of things. If they had any knowledge of the sociological or cultural implications of this case; they surely didn't display it. For example, Logan reacted after the brother's attempt to raise hell outside the grocery, he didn't anticipate it.
I good episode overall though...and on shallow note: did Logan change his leather coat? Seems to me that his old beaten trademark coat has followed the Santa mug into the props cemetery!
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Post by sarahlee on Jan 3, 2007 12:13:39 GMT -5
I liked this episode mainly for the improving interaction between Logan and Wheeler. They are developing a second sense and comfort level with each other that is believeable and fun to watch. (Re the " Hooker intuition" scene, Wheeler's sidle up to Logan, and his surprised, but pleased smirk over her remark.) It's not G/E CI, but I'm coming to accept and enjoy the difference.
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 3, 2007 12:20:02 GMT -5
... is it that WE ( society in general ) don't want to address this subject for fear of appearing ethnocenteric or perhaps because somewhere deep down WE see some tiny sliver of justification in these killings. Such a scary thought but sadly I feel that there is some truth to it...It was everywhere in this episode...all based on sterotypes), Yes, I very much agree with this. Not just with respect to honour killlings either but class, caste and sexism issues too. It's something that is harder to pin down, or fight against because it is so latent in Western society. It takes things like the patriot act to bring the worms out of the woodwork. Many of us pride ourselves on our tolerance. Both families would see themselves as upstanding citizens not as racists or sexists. PS. I don't think you're afraid of ethnocentricity
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Post by drsues on Jan 3, 2007 14:15:42 GMT -5
I have to say I was disappointed with this episode. I had seen this same espisod as done by the SVU team. For me, there were no twists, no surprises; they didn't even change who the murderer was. It reminded me of the first episodes developed for Star Trek: Next Generation where much of the first season were reworked from the original. I think that once I recognized it, I kind of turned off. I'm going to have to watch this again to see if I can pick up on some of the other nuances expressed in previous posts, but I felt this was more of a hook for traditional SVU fans to hang out with CI before their customary show came on. I'll let you know if my opinion changes.
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Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
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Post by Leonore on Jan 3, 2007 14:18:44 GMT -5
I didn't see the honor killing. It lost the honor killing aspect (for me) when the brother wrote 4911 in his sister's blood and I don't feel that he was trying to make it look like a racial crime. I think he was so enraged with the unfairness of all his parents lost, all he had to give up and the fact that his sister wasn't bitter and wanted to live her own life and didn't want to give up her life. It was unfair that the family lost so much and that he felt he had to give everything up. The look on his face as he relived the murder with Wheeler...he was horrified by his actions. The blind rage at the unfairness may have led to the murder of his sister, but he knew what he was doing in covering it up: egging on the confrontation with the boyfriend, trying to start a riot, trying to make the other fiancerun (to make him look guilty).
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rue721
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 101
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Post by rue721 on Jan 3, 2007 14:49:21 GMT -5
What was the "4911" about again?
He had done it "for 9/11"?
Sorry- I must have completely zoned out when that was explained!
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peachybc
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 109
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Post by peachybc on Jan 3, 2007 16:27:54 GMT -5
That first place rating was all of us die hard CI fans tuning in, trying to cure our withdrawal symptoms!
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Post by ragincajun on Jan 3, 2007 17:09:23 GMT -5
I found the epi so-so, think I was so excited just to have a new epi to watch. Wish they would have had someone else have done the murder, on NBC.com I had picked the brother, due to the fact that this plot had been done before. Was shocked when Wheeler let him use her to demostrate the murder, luckly he didn't over power her and really slam her head into the concrete. Need to watch again, But didn't the father say he came to America to give his children a better life? So why was he marrying off his daughter and sending her back to Pakistan? Will need to rewatch. But love the previews for next week, can't wait. RC
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