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Post by Sirenna on Jan 2, 2007 22:24:48 GMT -5
So much to say about this episode but at the end I just feel sad and exhausted for what Romeo and Juliet just went through. (That means I thought it was good! )
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Post by Techguy on Jan 2, 2007 23:11:37 GMT -5
I agree, this is a sad and emotionally draining episode, and very very good. I'm reminded a lot not only of the Shakespeare play, but also the film Shadows and Fog in its relentless and merciless rendition of how careless choices result in unspeakable tragedy.
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Post by trisha on Jan 2, 2007 23:22:59 GMT -5
Well, if you liked it, maybe I should give it a second try while not taking down christmas decorations. Romeo & Juliet are Italian and Muslim, and to give it some more racial tension they throw in violent Orthodox Jew's who beat up Hispanic day laborers? WTF? Sorry, that's when I got up and started taking down the tree as the show ran in the background.
On the bright side, I would never have caught that GREAT episode of SVU if I didn't have the tv tuned to CI. I completely stopped what I was doing to watch that one. What a turn around!!
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 2, 2007 23:26:27 GMT -5
LOL! Agreed there was tons of melodrama in this one - even SVU seemed tame by comparison.
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Post by Techguy on Jan 2, 2007 23:33:50 GMT -5
Yes, I agree WF is drenched in melodrama, but I wasn't turned off by it. Maybe it said what I already knew, that hate begets hate and the results are very often disastrous. But maybe that's the point, that four centuries after Shakespeare wrote about bigotry and intolerance, the names, ethnicities, and national origins of the players on stage might have changed but human nature has changed very little. And if that makes us uncomfortable, maybe it still needs to be said. Again and again.
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Post by sobergal95 on Jan 2, 2007 23:37:15 GMT -5
This was a good episode, but was not a fun ride, thats for sure! Really dug all the shots of the "Unisphere", in "Men in Black" the shots were at night, so it was neat to see it a little better (and without the cockroaches). Lots to think about. Mostly I am thinking of Meena's film and how the devastation of 9-11 affects us still, even though it wasn't the "main" theme of this episode. Wheeler and Logan's partnership is still growing and fun to watch. I'm sure I can think of more to say later, but I am still digesting it.
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Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
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Post by Leonore on Jan 3, 2007 0:12:39 GMT -5
As I heard many times from my parents while growing up: The world's not fair.
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Post by elphiefae on Jan 3, 2007 2:13:59 GMT -5
Ha, I watched this one with my parents, and it was certainly interesting...interesting meaning my dad's never sat through an entire episode of CI, and my mom didn't know Wheeler existed. When I turned it on, she was like, "Who the heck is that? Didn't they have him partnered with some other lady?" and my dad was just like "Um...I don't recognize these people. Where's the really tall guy and the really short girl cop? Are you sure this is Criminal Intent?"
But in between their snide remarks about the annoyingness of Wheeler and Logan's hair, I did manage to catch most of the episode, and it was pretty good. Emotionally taxing, for sure, but it made me like Wheeler just a teensy bit more. By the way, the guy who played Papa Capulet (because I don't remember the character's real name, heehee)--did anyone else get the feeling they've seen him as another bit part somewhere? Cause I think I have, but now I can't remember where, and it's bothering me.
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Post by mikeyrocks on Jan 3, 2007 2:20:27 GMT -5
I actually really enjoyed this episode MELODRAMA and all ;D. Although I had narrowed down my list of suspects in Menna's killing fairly early in the episode - I still found World's Fair to be a fascinating ( albeit very depressing ) roller coaster ride. Both emotionally and intellectually - this episode really made me think of so many important issues - honour, family, sexual inequality, rasism, love - the list could go on and on. As I stated above - I felt that I knew who had killed Menna early in the episode. I was also quite sure that the subject of honour killing would come up - I was very glad that it did as I think that it is a subject that needs much more media attention than it gets. I have often wondered why this is - is it that WE ( society in general ) don't want to address this subject for fear of appearing ethnocenteric or perhaps because somewhere deep down WE see some tiny sliver of justification in these killings. Such a scary thought but sadly I feel that there is some truth to it. As long as we live in a world where people devalue or belittle one another because of sex or skin colour or religion ( or what have you ) - We will see this kind of tragic outfall - Honour Killings, hate Crimes , racially motivated attacks. All still so prevelant in the world today. It was everywhere in this episode - the racial attacks, the two family's animosity towards one another ( all based on sterotypes), the anger and resentment Menna's family had because they felt she had shamed them. Did I mention that although I LOVED this episode I found it to be unbelievably depressing! Now on a happier note - Logan and Wheeler are just so INCREDIBLE together ( IMO at least : ). With each new episode they just seem to gel more and more. I think that they play off of each other wonderfully and they really seem to respect each other's opinions. Logan's position as the senior partner was really evident tonight - very street wise and accustomed to the kind of tension that they were experiencing but also giving Wheeler quite alot of room to work and do her thing. Poor sweet and green Wheeler was starting to look very worn and cynical by epie's end.- Mind you Logan seemed really shaken by the events as well. A really IMPORTANT episode I think - I know I won't be able to sleep to well tonight -as I'm still thinking so much about it. P.S - sorry for the somewhat sappy and rambling post folks - I'm running on to little sleep and to much coffee tonight - AND - this episode really really got to me. I'm sure I will have more to add after another viewing
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rue721
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 101
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Post by rue721 on Jan 3, 2007 2:35:38 GMT -5
I thought the episode was great!
I was a little disappointed when I saw that honor killing was going to be the "issue" of the show, but I thought it was handled beautifully. The brother seemed like a real person the viewer could empathize with, because of the nice twist on traditional muslim gender roles. I thought it was an interesting insight that Minna and her brother were opposite sides of the coin- she was limited in love, and he was limited in life. It's an issue I admit to not thinking too much about, because it feels so natural to identify with brutalized women, it's easy to forget that it doesn't happen in a vacuum.
What I liked about the episode was that the characters were stock types, but their situation was manuevered into making a subtle statement. Great writing!
And though I want to get back to the soap opera saga of Goren, I have to say that I love Det. Logan. Despite all the problems his character has had in the past, he comes off as steady and confident. A nice counterpoint to pretty much everyone else, save Eames.
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Post by SarahIvy on Jan 3, 2007 2:50:20 GMT -5
This one was good for a single viewing, but it didn't hold my interest...I just felt like the same subject matter has been done before and done better....in fact, wasn't there a Mothership episode some years ago that dealt with a brother committing an honor killing/murder of his sister? I recall that being a very gripping hour of television (I *still* remember the grieving mother incredibly clearly), whereas this one I found myself making jewelry, feeding the dogs, and wanting to wander around.
Techguy, I know that's an actual movie too, but did you by any chance mean "The House of Sand and Fog"? I ask because about halfway through this episode I turned to the hubster and said, "You know, this reminds me of House of Sand and Fog because every single person is misunderstanding and making horrible, volitile, tragic choices."
I guess my grousing is because I find the subject matter they were dealing with fascinating and disturbing, but I feel like I've seen it dealt with in a more gripping way elsewhere. I wasn't drawn in by any of the characters in a personal way, no one made much of an impression.
I agree with what Mikeyrocks said though, that the issues dealt with in this episode are SO important and should be in the media far more...so I appreciate that they put it out there, and did deal with it all in a sensitive and intelligent way.
Grousing aside, I really do LOVE Logan and Wheeler together. I enjoy every moment they're on the screen, and all their exchanges are just fabulous. Hooker intuition, heh.
(Though I have to say I found the end bit where the brother was gripping Wheeler's head and faux beating her face into the pavement unbelievable and ridiculous.)
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Post by Techguy on Jan 3, 2007 3:09:03 GMT -5
the guy who played Papa Capulet (because I don't remember the character's real name, heehee)--did anyone else get the feeling they've seen him as another bit part somewhere? Cause I think I have, but now I can't remember where, and it's bothering me. The character's name is Kazi Hasni and he is played by Erick Avari. You might recognize Mr. Avari from a few mothership episodes or, if you have been watching "Heroes" he plays Chandra Suresh in a few episodes. In any case, here's his IMDb Bio
Techguy, I know that's an actual movie too, but did you by any chance mean " The House of Sand and Fog"? Aha, yes I do mean House of Sand and Fog but I must have had a brain fart while typing. Thanks for the reality check!
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Post by sobergal95 on Jan 3, 2007 3:13:18 GMT -5
I didn't find it overly melodramatic. Or maybe I minimized it since the drama was not centered on the detectives personal lives and taking focus off the crime,victims and the suspects? But I have to agree with elphie's parents: Logan's hair did look especially bad!
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Post by Techguy on Jan 3, 2007 3:25:55 GMT -5
Right on point, Sobergal95. The melodrama is there, but not to the detriment of telling the story of who does what to whom and why.
Janethyland asked earlier about distinctions in levels of melodrama and I concur. WF has purpose, and great sympathy and empathy for the characters, especially the victims. In contrast, the melodrama in "The War At Home" is self-indulgent and detracts from the story of the victim. I've been on that rant before so I won't go there again. Suffice it to say I think WF is far and away a superior episode, and I rated it accordingly.
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Post by NikkiGreen on Jan 3, 2007 3:59:09 GMT -5
The father of the murdered Pakistani girl is played by Erick Avari. You might recognize him from a few mothership episodes Some of us also know him as Kasuf, Daniel Jackson's "Good Father" on Stargate. SVU did an honour killing episode back in Season 2 called Honor (the one you remember, SarahIvy). I think that was much better. They didn't have that many cliches and Romeo and Juliet were both of the same faith. And Trisha, tonight's episode of SVU had more anxious moments. It was an okay episode. Granted, I was interrupted a few times and will need to have a second viewing. Logan & Wheeler were good. Tony Lo Bianco was great, as was "Good Father".
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