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Post by romulanavatra3 on Apr 7, 2004 10:07:09 GMT -5
thanks for replying trisha i agree with most of what you said the only thing i owuld say is i think she was deeply affected in baggage, particuarly with her comment at the end, she seemed to take the case very personally, i also thought she was affected by the case to a degree in jones and the creepy lawyers wife refusal to admit the obivious beacuse of some mismatched infalted sense of loyalty(why she was so loyal to the creep i still find hard to belive give that he certainly wasnt, i some suprised she did not just leave him and let him carry on his merry way). i also think in monster alex was affected by the actions of the crroupt creepy cop( i think these cases are somewhat peronal beacuse of her father) , i laso think she regards cops who are corrupt as a major threat to the good cops on the force and hates the way they often protect themselves by closing ranks and refusing to coppoerate. the only thing i disagree with silghtly in what you said is about her hidding female sterotypes, yes to a point i belvie this is true but at the same time i dont think she is tries( like a lot of female cop chracaters) to be all mauscline i nthe way she does her job, i also think that alot her feelings are hidden beaucse she does not trust people easily and i think she is very careful about reaviling privite infomAtion in case somebody would use it against her, for instance in seziure when they are talking to redick about the dr dawyer and trying to find out who he knew aobut her secret, eames comment regarding personal secrets was intresting( she definatley has some of her own thats for certain). i agree eames is deinatley a women not a girl and porabbly took offnce to deakins calling her that. i think this all i can think for the moment. regards rom.
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Post by trisha on Apr 7, 2004 12:03:36 GMT -5
It's interesting to me that you sited two episodes, Baggage and Jones, that dealt with overtly misogynistic a-holes, and the only episode that dealt with the "old boys club" to make your points.
I don't think any woman could not be disgusted by men like those in Jones and Baggage. And the cop in Monster repeatedly directed his statements to Goren instead of to both Goren and Eames as equals. Of coarse she showed signs of frustration, so did I. But I still wouldn't call her sensitive.
I also don't think she tries to be masculine. She's just tries to be professional, and being a man or woman has nothing to do with being a cop. At least it shouldn't.
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Post by janetcatbird on Apr 7, 2004 16:19:28 GMT -5
I"m not sure Eames is really scared or hurt in the way you've suggested earlier, Rom. Is she private and careful, yes, because that's just normal for a cop--especially a woman in a male-dominated field. But I also think part of that is her personality. I take after my father, about as communicative as an introverted monk, in that I don't like to show my feelings or appear vulnerable. Maybe Eames has something like that too.
She has been very subdued lately--it's possible that it's post-partun depression (I understand that's a normal and expected aspec of childbirth), and I think it would be a nice lead-in to a talk with SKoda. And you all know how a sentimentalist like me would like that. But the writers seem determined to hoard the wealth with Goren insights and not reveal much about the others. They use the name "Law & Order" ("Oh, but Law & Order doesn't follow characters home!") while blatantly going against type with Goren. Just a pet peeve of mine...
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Post by romulanavatra3 on Apr 8, 2004 3:28:03 GMT -5
okay trisha one thing i will say was ialso got the same feeling of frasturation wiht the old boys club in badge to. i have to disagree with you on saying that she is not snesitive, in my view she is sensitive to people but sometimes comes off as seemilngly not so. yes iagree with eames trying to be professional with letting gender get in the way( one of the reasons i prefer eames to benson on svu). janetcatbird good points, i agree it is definatley part of her personality, the main reason i think she is a little bit frightend of opening up is that she is very small( no offence to small people) and as a result she proabbly feels very uncomfortable at times beacuse most people around her are at least twice her size if not more( partiuclary criminals who could easily hurt her if a situation got out of hand or if goren wasnt able to get to her fast enough). i also think that she has insecurities regarding her family particulary her father and the fact that was caught double dipping and i do not think hse wants to fall in to a trap where she would make the same mistake. i think she has been hurt in some way some where some how in her live,i have long thoguht that even if a case does not afectec her deeply ehr ocmments at the end of epsidoes are often as result of aspect of the case(and they often help the audicne get an understanding as to what she is thinking). reagrds rom.
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Post by Metella on Apr 8, 2004 6:13:10 GMT -5
physically hurt in some way in her life? or emotionally?
Rom, I have seen youngsters and older "short" people toss, throw, out speed and frankly out punch all sorts of larger people. Sure, that is in the martial arts studio - but don't you think Eames would have been trained? I can't imagine that she walks in fear through the squad room because there is a large criminal in there. It just does not make any sense.
Look at the guy she tossed on the ground in ONE and if they projected her as a perp tossing chick cop then, I don't think they are going to bring on a "big guy" phobia now.
I don't think she was ever physically hurt.
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Post by trisha on Apr 8, 2004 8:48:20 GMT -5
Well, her man was killed in the line of duty. That had to hurt, and also makes the potential for getting hurt or killed on the job more real.
But, like Metella, I don't think this is something that crosses her mind often. She is always willing to become bait for bad guys, and showed she wasn't scared of the creep in Baggage when he flipped during the interrogation.
I do think she is very respectful of other people, though, more so than Goren, who doesn't even bother to shave before going to work.
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Post by romulanavatra3 on Apr 8, 2004 9:40:52 GMT -5
mettela you have point though i must admit for instacne in the epsidoe aobut the sczoprhenic doctor who was preforming wired eye operations . she seemd quite uncomfortable with the original suipect who was way bigger than her and a lot more bulky and could have done some serious damage. i think she is not nesscrily affraid of supect unless she is in a one on one situation which can go wrong. trisha speaking of her being willing to play bait to crooks, if you look at her expression in jones when goren suggests that she act as bait she was a little worried( i think she was porabbly thinking of some means of not doing it if she did not have to). i also think that even if she has had training(which iam sure she has had) the fact that she may be unable to prevent somebody hurting her may make quite a lot more apprenhensive in certian situations and generaly. reagrds all rom.
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Post by trisha on Apr 8, 2004 15:13:38 GMT -5
Rom, I felt that Eames was more annoyed with the guy in See Me, and skeeved by the guy in Jones. I sensed no fear in her in either situation. Whooo Hooo! And with this post, I make Detective
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Post by Metella on Apr 8, 2004 18:48:12 GMT -5
You freaking snot you freaking snot you freaking snot
If I hadn't had a week of feeling sorry for myself & been quiet and pouting I would have been there.
Ratt Butts.
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Post by romulanavatra3 on Apr 9, 2004 4:46:14 GMT -5
skeeved(i have no idea what this word means beacuse unfortunatley i have never seen it used before at least not htat i can rembeer). i still think she was also scared(to point, within reason) as much as she was annoyed with the guy in see me. on thing in proabbility she seemd downright unsure what to make of wally stevens partiuclary when he was crowdding her( the look she gave to gren was almsot one of pleading). i think she was both annoyed and lttile worried beacuse of the uncertinty of what his next action might be. reagrds rom.
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Post by Metella on Apr 9, 2004 6:02:31 GMT -5
I saw both the looks you are talking about.
So, I agree that there was non-verbal communication going on and clearly some emotional expression.
I just pull from those a completely different feeling. I got no fear from her at all. So - since we agree on the exact moments that were to convey some meaning - I think this is where we not convince each other further of the meaning behind it.
I think your delicate and wonderful, and fox-faced (compliment) Eames was frightened. My Eames was not a bit frightened, she was outright annoyed and trying to be polite. Let's keep watching and see what our two Eames' do.
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Post by romulanavatra3 on Apr 9, 2004 10:40:46 GMT -5
okay mettella since you brought this one up how owuld you discribe you eames, i would be intrest to know what your take on her chrarcter is. as for the list of my eames, i would add strong willed( i d belvie she is delciate but i also think she could easily protect herself if she had to in most sitautions). i do like eames as chracter and so far she is possibly my favourtie female character i have seen in long time. i agree with trisha that eames is more respectful of people around her than goren(he really should learn to shave sometimes). reagrds rom.
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Post by trisha on Apr 10, 2004 8:12:23 GMT -5
I think you put it right, Metella My Eames isn't delicate, or really sensitive, either, but it's okay if others don't agree. I just refuse to see her in a girlie light because it would ruin the sense of pride I feel in thinking that there are people like her representing our sex. There are a lot of Kelly Rippa's out there dragging us down...
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Post by romulanavatra3 on Apr 10, 2004 10:32:15 GMT -5
put it this way thisha she is cerntenly not girle, in my view she is both delicate and srtong(physically and minded) at the same time, she is a very intelgient woman who is capable to handinling things that many people would not( inclding goren, i think she is strong and more reslliant than goren at times to, but also think she has a delcite side to her( and she has shown this on more than one ocassion for instacne the epsidoe aobut the creep who was tainting medical supllies so he could get money she seemed very torn up when the old man desribed what happen to his wife, she really really seemd very sad and quite hurt in that scene and other in that epsiode). i do not think that she needs to be protected by or that she would nessecirly appeicate it,sometimes i feel that she like some one to help create a diversion so she can calm herself and redcue some tension). in many respects i think alex can handle hereslf with criminals who are bigger or stronger than her than goren could in the same situation and dispite her fears or worries i think if she had to she owuld be more than able to protect herself if nesscary. i do sometiems get the feeling that alex has a major worry about using her gun and i think that she is scared of being put in a sitauion where she is forced to kill somebody( for instances in the loan shark epsidoe she seemd quite upset after having shot the criminal even though deakins had congraulated her). i think she is sensitive but holds in balance so as not to become to emaitonally involved in cases or loose her edge in investigations. i do not see alex as weak,unsure,timid,scared woeman that needs to rely on goren to save at all, in fact i think more often than not goren needs to rely on her to save his butt( and is grateful for it to). i also think if somebody tried to hurt she would not jsut stand there and like and satatue and start screaming like some old fashined expaection of female behavhiour but rahter stnad her gorund and protect hefself how ever she thoguht was nesscary, i really do seem as a capable woman who is perfectly happy with who she is and i somebody make jokes about being a woman she would either ignore them or give back to them on plate and make sure they were sorry and regreted crossing her path( no i dont i think she is nasty or spiteful but i think if a fellow male cop tried to humilate her for being a woman i think she would have no compunciton about humilintg them, back and teching them a lesson they would not soon forget, though if goren tried it would be rahter diffrent beacuse i think she owuld knock him out ocul and then march into deakins office and request and immediate transfer). reagrds rom.
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Post by Mel4of5 on Apr 10, 2004 14:55:15 GMT -5
8-)I usually tape new eps but missed the last ones, being away from home, getting slammed on the head in Florida. The post-baby Eames seems more energetic and outspoken, taking the lead in interviews and interrogations. In Bishop this would have been annoying, was annoying. I have been watching SVU and it's interesting to observe the differences between Benson and Eames. Benson is tough and good at her job in spite of a past that left open wounds. Eames is just as good a detective and we know a little about her past. But she seems rather closed and mysterious. Probably one of those fascinating Scorpios.
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