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Post by Patcat on Aug 7, 2007 8:49:27 GMT -5
Airs Wednesday, August 8, at 6pm and 11pm EST on the USA Cable Network
Originally aired October 17, 2001. From the first season.
Written by Stephanie Sengupta Directed by Constantine Makris
Guest Actors: Leslie Hendrix (M.E. Rodgers); Dana Reeve (Melanie Grasso); Alex Feldman (Kevin Donovan); Micheal O'Keefe (Father Michael McShane)
Synopsis: Goren and Eames' investigation of the death of a Catholic church sexton leads to another death. The case threatens to uncover secrets that may harm innocents.
Quotes:
Goren (after Eames compliments him on his questioning of a homeless and mentally ill man): "I've had a lot of practice."
Deakins (witnessing Goren's interview techniques): "Great. The Goren show is back in town."
Eames: "You thinking of converting? Because I think Father Capama would love to baptize you." Goren: "Too late. You're speaking to a lapsed alter boy." Eames: "Ah, I should have known. The disregard for authority, the fascination with bad behavior..."
Carver: "Pull something like that again, Detective, and I'll have your badge."
Another strong entry from the show's first season. It provides one of LOCI's iconic images--that of Goren standing on the church pew and framing the crime scene with his hands--a fascinating case with compelling twists and turns, and some excellent acting by the regulars and guest actors Dana Reeve and Micheal O'Keefe. The late Ms. Reeve (she was Christopher Reeve's supportive wife) is wonderfully sympathetic in her few scenes. At one point in his career Micheal O'Keefe seemed headed for film stardom. He received an Oscar nomination for his role in THE GREAT SANTINI, but never seemed to get a film role worthy of his talents after that. But he's kept working, and in recent years he's made several television appearances that demonstrate he's an actor of considerable skill and charisma. His character is the center of this episode, and the fact that Mr. O'Keefe makes Father McShane believable and sympathetic adds greatly to the story's quality. He's especially good in his final scene with Mr. D'Onofrio, where the roles of the priest and confessor are reversed.
Several LOCI episodes deal with the Catholic church. How is that institution portrayed in LOCI? In this episode?
Who is the greatest sinner in this story?
Is this the first hint at the presence of mental illness in Goren's family? How is it handled?
Carver is extremely upset by Goren's getting a confession from Father McShane. Should the ADA be upset? For his part, Goren actually seems somewhat chastened by Carver's words. Should the detective feel guilty? Could Carver really take away Goren's badge?
We don't see Eames' reaction to Goren's getting the confession. Their conversation just before Goren visits McShane suggests Eames, while sympathetic to Melanie Grasso's situation, wouldn't entirely support Goren's actions. I've occasionally thought that if Eames did send that request for a transfer during the events of the first season, it might have happened after this case. Comments?
Patcat
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Post by madger on Aug 7, 2007 10:28:47 GMT -5
My favorite line: Eames to Goren: What did you think, this was some kind of catch and release program?
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Post by Patcat on Aug 7, 2007 11:32:26 GMT -5
That is a good line--sorry I forgot it and glad you remembered it.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 7, 2007 14:44:30 GMT -5
Another excellent Season 1 episode. Get to see Eames handle herself well at the video arcade, ducking a punch by Kevin Donovan. What a terrible person he is. Although I wholeheartedly agree with Eames - the negligent Mom who took the easy way out & gave her son to the priest to raise is somehow partially responsible for how he turned out. To me, she took the easy & cowardly route. She becomes a pillar of her new church community, all while hiding this secret. It always surprises me how Goren, who is so into people being accountable, doesn't see this & wants to further protect her.
I'm just relieved that this episode came out prior to the pedophile priest scandals. It would have been too tempting for them to rip the headlines & make Father McShane have a sexual relationship with Kevin (or some kid). All in all, CI has usually been fair & impartial in its portrayal of the Catholic Church. Other shows are much worst.
I've always liked Michael O'Keefe myself. I'm surprised he hasn't been offered a series on Television. Maybe he has, and the pilots haven't been picked up?
I can't see Goren's handling of McShane being the straw that makes Eames ask for a new partner. Sure, she was annoyed with his reaction to Melanie Grasso. But she wasn't present at the confession/interrogation and I can't see it bothering her that much. Now Carver, he was justifiably upset. Goren's protection of Melanie Grasso remind me of his initial protection of Sister Olivia in Acts Of Contrition. I'm wondering if he had a special fondness for either a nun or a lay person while he was an altar boy? He seems to have a soft spot for sweet religious women.
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okaadaak
Rookie
Wish I could understand German!
Posts: 32
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Post by okaadaak on Aug 7, 2007 14:53:52 GMT -5
Since I'm not a catholic, I have my problems with things like the vow of chastity or the treatment of women in general. But I LOVE this episode. It was one of the first I ever saw in English (as opposed to dubbed in German) and since that day, I've become a fan of LOCI. I really don't know anything about police procedure but I'd say any superior can 'get your badge' if he's decided to. It's always dangerous to step on a superior's toes. Plus, Goren's still a newbie. I've alwyas had the feeling Eames had another partner before him. Makes me wonder, who and how he/she was and what happened to him/her.
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Post by Patcat on Aug 7, 2007 15:15:42 GMT -5
I must confess that I'm not certain what happened to Kevin. Was he adopted, and then entered the foster system? I also must confess I'm an advocate of adoption, and regard any mother with the honesty and strength to recognize someone else could give her child a better life as a great person.
A good question though--are Melanie Grasso and Father McShane responsible for the way Kevin came out?
And I feel the need to say that Alex Feldman's performance as Kevin is a rare weak point in LOCI performances. He seems a bit over the top to me.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 7, 2007 15:48:51 GMT -5
I think Father McShane did the best that he could with Kevin, considering his limits as a Catholic priest. I, too, am an advocate of adoption. I don't blame Melanie Grasso for putting him up for adoption. What I do blame her for is turning a deaf ear to Kevin's problems. She was very aware that Kevin, HER SON, was troubled. A violent drug addict. As his mother, she had an obligation to try & help him. Sure, it would have taken tremendous moral courage to do that. She might have had to admit to her current husband that she had a child. But she wimped out, and left it all for McShane to deal with.
And when she found out that her son was killed (by his biological father) she only felt sorry for Michael. For God sakes lady, your son was killed! Don't you feel any sense of responsibility at all?
She reminds me of "Chops" mother from Fico De Capo, who was able to pretend that she never had him.
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Post by musicwench on Aug 7, 2007 20:32:41 GMT -5
Several LOCI episodes deal with the Catholic church. How is that institution portrayed in LOCI? In this episode?
I think they've been very fair in their depiction of the Catholic church. Then again I may be biased, not being a huge fan of that particular institution so what I might see as fair, others may not.
Who is the greatest sinner in this story?
I'd say Kevin probably. Yes, he had it rough but not all kids who have it rough turn out that rotten.
Melanie Grasso was basically a good person who made bad decisions. She spent her life making up for it.
Kevin is the product of that but again, we can blame our parents for our faults but once we grow up there is no excuse. I've known many people who had a hard life growing up and even perhaps went through a bad patch but they knew the difference between right and wrong and chose right.
And then there's Father McShane. A very flawed and yet somehow sympathetic character. Basically he's a good man - or he wants to be. It's obvious that he still loves Melanie and that he loves her more than their son or his vows to God.
In my mind it's a sad commentary on the Catholic church's insistence that priests and nuns take a vow of chastity. It's one of those antiquated hold overs from the dark ages if you ask me. But then again, I'm a Buddhist, not a Christian so my views on this are definitely biased.
Is this the first hint at the presence of mental illness in Goren's family? How is it handled?
I believe it is the first hint of it since I don't recall any other reference to it in One, Art or Smothered. I think it's handled quite subtly. We don't know at this point that it's Goren's family member who gave him that practice. It could be one of his more 'off beat' friends like the forger, etc. It did make me consider where it might be he got that experience.
Carver is extremely upset by Goren's getting a confession from Father McShane. Should the ADA be upset? For his part, Goren actually seems somewhat chastened by Carver's words. Should the detective feel guilty? Could Carver really take away Goren's badge?
I don't know if Carver could take away Goren's badge or not. I thought Goren shouldn't have felt badly about what he had done at all. There was no sense in letting Melanie Grasso and ergo, her family, suffer if it was at all possible. She had nothing to do with it except for that one huge mistake she had made in her youth. The life she leads today is truly a good one and I think perhaps she has suffered enough knowing the fate of her child.
Sometimes Carver just irritated me to no end. Of course this is where I started to like the Goren character because of what he did to protect Melanie and her family. And because of Carver's reaction and his threat, it seemed at the time a huge sacrifice for Goren to make in order to try and find justice without harming innocents. If you don't feel sorry for Melanie Grasso, you could for her family because they truly were innocent.
We don't see Eames' reaction to Goren's getting the confession. Their conversation just before Goren visits McShane suggests Eames, while sympathetic to Melanie Grasso's situation, wouldn't entirely support Goren's actions. I've occasionally thought that if Eames did send that request for a transfer during the events of the first season, it might have happened after this case. Comments?
I still think she requested a new partner before the season began.
If she was really upset with Goren over this she never would have gone along with the holding off telling Carver for a couple of days. I think while they're still getting used to each other, by this time there is already trust between them. So even if she doesn't agree with Goren, she still does him that favor of not telling Carver immediately. She had to know he had something planned and had to trust that he was going to work things out.
She even compliments him on his tactics with the homeless mentally ill guy earlier in the episode.
I still don't see anywhere in season 1 where she would have written that letter.
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Post by Summerfield on Aug 7, 2007 20:46:36 GMT -5
Funny thing, last night while watching 'Saving Grace,' Michael O'Keefe played a priest. He was "protecting a witness." He also annointed the victim with olive oil, ala 'The Faithful.' Talk about your deja vu No one really has an original thought these days!
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Post by Techguy on Aug 7, 2007 23:02:38 GMT -5
Several LOCI episodes deal with the Catholic church. How is that institution portrayed in LOCI? In this episode? I don't detect anything out of line in this or any other CI episode regarding its portrayal of the Catholic church. Like DonnaJo, however, I'm grateful and relieved we didn't get a pedophile priest "ripped-from-the-headlines" treatment here.
Who is the greatest sinner in this story? As anyone who's read my posts on this subject before, I'm a firm believer in taking responsibility for one's actions. No matter what the circumstances of Kevin's childhood, his being given up by his birth mother or whatever, he chooses to be a thief and a cruel, cold-blooded killer. He is the greatest sinner in this tale. His mother Melanie Grasso is guilty too, of regarding her reputation and keeping secrets from her husband and other children above her oldest son's welfare. While I grant it was probably the best for her to give Kevin up for adoption, in this enlightened age there's no excuse for her continued non-involvement in Kevin's life and placing total responsibility for him with Father McShane. She seems more interested in protecting herself, her new life, and her lies than in anything that happens to Kevin. I think she's selfish, cold, and uncaring, and certainly not worthy of Goren's concern or sympathy.
Is this the first hint at the presence of mental illness in Goren's family? How is it handled? I don't recall any mention or suggestion of mental illness in Goren's family prior to this episode. It's so low key and understated, I don't think we really connect his remark to himself specifically until later episodes when more details are revealed.
Carver is extremely upset by Goren's getting a confession from Father McShane. Should the ADA be upset? For his part, Goren actually seems somewhat chastened by Carver's words. Should the detective feel guilty? Could Carver really take away Goren's badge? I don't know if Carver can have Goren's badge taken away, as in fired or taken off the street and relegated to desk duty. Carver is too meticulous, bordering on anal, to allow Goren's failure to reveal all the facts of the case go unnoticed or commented on. Carver can be, and has been, too much the politician when dealing with his detectives, and this is one of those times when it's most obvious. I don't see Goren as chastened or guilty so much as embarrassed at the ADA's angry words. Carver's reaction certainly didn't stop Goren from "stepping over the line" in the future.
We don't see Eames' reaction to Goren's getting the confession. Their conversation just before Goren visits McShane suggests Eames, while sympathetic to Melanie Grasso's situation, wouldn't entirely support Goren's actions. I've occasionally thought that if Eames did send that request for a transfer during the events of the first season, it might have happened after this case. Comments? I don't see anything in this episode that would suggest a cause for Eames writing her letter asking for a new partner. I'm stumped, however, at what point this took place and now think it probably happened "off screen" prior to any episode airing.
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Post by Patcat on Aug 8, 2007 8:46:07 GMT -5
A word in some defense of Melanie Grasso. Even today, with the scandals and a more liberal world, Catholic priests exist on a different plane for some Catholics. It's one reason the sex abuse scandal happened and festered for so long. The guild and shame of having a child out of wedlock, let alone the child of a priest, would be terrible for Melanie Grasso. This is not to excuse what she did, but to offer some explanation.
I note that no one seems to blame Father McShane in this case. Do people feel that he at least tried to do the right thing? (And, for the record, I feel sympathy for him, although I certainly don't condone his actions.)
Patcat
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Post by Cassie on Aug 8, 2007 11:32:26 GMT -5
I note that no one seems to blame Father McShane in this case. Do people feel that he at least tried to do the right thing? (And, for the record, I feel sympathy for him, although I certainly don't condone his actions. I believe Father McShane fell in love with Melanie, after he made his vows to God. God is a cool kind of guy. He would have been ok with McShane if he wanted to leave the preisthood to marry Melanie or raise his son. Or find another woman to marry someday. I beleive McShane (and Melanie) was held captive more by the church and the congregation and their rules, then God For a priest, he should have known what God wanted from him. He was suppose to be in a relationship with God after all. I don't think he listen to God like he should have, in the early days. and yeah where all guilty of that too..... He should have left the priesthood. Sure it wouldnt have been easy... Just like Melanie wouldnt be the first girl to get pregnant out of wedlock. He wouldnt have been the first priest to leave the priesthood. It would have been hard at first.....but it could have been done
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Post by Patcat on Aug 8, 2007 12:48:38 GMT -5
One of the tragedies of this story (which seems to have lots of them) is that it appears McShane was good at being a priest. His fellow priests have a good opinion of him, and the homeless men at the shelter appeared to be willing to take on Goren and Eames when they arrested him. His relationship with Melanie Grasso seems to have been serious and loving, and it doesn't appear that he has any history of abuse or of otherwise violating his vows. This certainly doesn't absolve him of the considerable sins of stealing and especially murder, and one of the things which strikes me about his interview with Goren is that Goren seems to be trying to save McShane's soul as much as he's trying to protect Melanie Grasso and her family.
I think to say that McShane could have left the priesthood, or that he should have, is not to recognize the complexity of his situation. And I don't mean to slap down your argument, Cassie, or anything like that. Your point is completely valid. I just don't think it was that easy in McShane's mind.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 8, 2007 12:58:35 GMT -5
Like Father Ralph in "The Thorn Birds," Father Michael loved a woman, but loved God more, if that makes sense. Meaning that even though he succumbed to his love & desire for Melanie, he made his choice, which was to continue on as a priest. I, as many Catholics do today, don't agree that celibacy is necessary for a person to be faithful to their religious profession. I'm surprised that Melanie is still so concerned & worried about the man who chose his profession over her & left her pregnant & single. I doubt I would be so forgiving.
In spite of that, I do think that father McShane tried to do the right thing by both Kevin & Melanie all of these years. I just don't see why he had to murder Kevin. Is Melanie's secret worth a human life? Especially so, that a priest needs to commit murder?
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Post by Cassie on Aug 8, 2007 13:16:16 GMT -5
He could have still served God, and the Catholic Church and left the Priesthood. It was most likely the "church" man's rules. Not God's rules that held him back. Made him feel guilty.
He was a good man, and a good priest, who committed a big sin. And God could have used him to his fullest potential, as a married man. God could still use McShane while he would be serving his time in prison for the murder of Kevin. Who knows, maybe McShane would have ended up in prison for another reason, for a crime he didn't commit only because God wanted him there, to work for him there.
Sorry...... I've got issues with people in the "church" not just the catholic church..... but those who think they know what God's will is for another person.
Also, I believe that McShane loved Melanie , which I think God would have been OK with. and God kept bringing the issue of their sin to the table for them to solve. Kevin coming back into McShane's life, Kevin becoming a druggie, drug lord....The only way for McShane to solve this problem would be he would have to admit to his sin, and take responsibility for it.
I too, don't think the priest was an evil person. And Goren saw that too, but Goren pretty much said to the priest. "its time to man up" and if he didnt.....then what else could have happened down the line? Melanie's family would have been destroyed. Goren had a responsibility to see that justice was service.
However, Melanie needed to take responsibility to.... She got off to easily I feel. She was looking out for herself more, where as McShane was looking out for her, And no one was looking out for the child, Kevin.
Choices, choices, choices.....
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