|
Post by quietfireca on Jul 31, 2008 22:52:18 GMT -5
I don't know why I didn't respond to this enlightening and moving post way back on page 5. All I can say is that it was so well written that I was taken aback and wanted to think about it for a while. Then, I must have forgotten; then quietfireca mentioned it to me and well it is such "good stuff" (sincerely!) that I have to comment. Thanks again, deathroe, for another of your insightful posts! And you'll notice I didn't post about it either. That's because it was such an amazing post, that I was "speechless". Deathroe, I want to write and analyze like you when I grow up!
|
|
|
Post by quietfireca on Jul 31, 2008 23:59:27 GMT -5
what the actors show strikes me as deep and genuine, whether the actors see it as friendship or something more (and wouldn't you just love to know how they see it?) Absolutely! And I'd love to hear Goren describe Eames and vice versa. Would that repression you refer to come screaming through? Although I suppose we heard from Eames in ITWSH2, in a very public arena, where she chose her words to describe Bobby very carefully. What would she say now, a few years and huge life experiences later? It's time to hear from him. What would he say? And not on a witness stand. For a guy who can barely spit out her first name, he'd probably rather be shot. I take Eames side, as well. But maybe that's the control-freak in me - and maybe it was in her, too. But I also see why he kept it from her, for all the reasons everyone else has given. I'm not sure she'd take all the "what-ifs" as far as all the wise forum members have, or whether she just has the "partners share everything" view so firmly ingrained, it can't be seen around. I'm sure he saw all the pitfalls of informing her, but after her outburst he wouldn't re-open any discussion on the subject. He'd be afraid he'd open the tap again. (Don't guys avoid that stuff at all costs?) He wants that scene as far behind them as possible. If he could erase that scene, he would and replace it with a triumphant little celebration involving a marguerita/martini and scotch. Then back to normal. Whatever normal is. I think he's getting his repentant message to Eames loud and clear by his actions. She is seeing his humanity in a different light and knows now how powerfully her words affected him. They didn't fall on deaf ears.
|
|
|
Post by deathroe on Aug 1, 2008 9:51:00 GMT -5
You guys are WAY too kind. I'm the least grownup person here. Trust me. And I love reading everybody's different styles of writing. Don't change, dammit! <3
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Aug 1, 2008 10:42:30 GMT -5
Deathroe--I'm with you on the comments regarding the crime plots not being up to snuff with Goren and Eames, but the relationship writing and acting being great.
As I've written before, I'm in the middle of the road regarding Eames' shoutdown of Goren. Yea, he deserves some flack from her for some stuff he's pulled over the years, and he placed her in a position where she almost killed him. But she should also understand that he was behind a rock and a hard place. They're both right; they're both wrong. I think it's very good writing.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by DonnaJo on Aug 1, 2008 14:53:50 GMT -5
what the actors show strikes me as deep and genuine, whether the actors see it as friendship or something more (and wouldn't you just love to know how they see it?) I've heard quite a bit of gossip, here-say, rumors and such on the Internet over the years about how difficult VDO used to be, back in the days when he was estranged from Carin. I also recall an interview with Erbe a few years back, her saying something to the effect that "Lucky for Vincent, she let him (D'Onofrio) live." The implication was that he was a handle & she had her hands full with him. Of course, Erbe would never say anything about what goes on to anyone, especially the press. My point is that I agree with you, deathroe. I see VDO & Kate as having a real friendship, and during the tough times, they have been there for each other. Didn't VDO in turn mention how great Kate was & that she has it tough as a single working Mom? I think it was during the "Today" interview with Noth? So perhaps the reason things between Goren & Eames look so real, is because, in a funny way, they are?
|
|
eva
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 86
|
Post by eva on Aug 1, 2008 14:59:20 GMT -5
... They're both right; they're both wrong. I think it's very good writing. Good writing it is, indeed. Because it's so human. I think many of us know how it is to be in such a situation, in a fight with someone close to us. There is no real "right" or "wrong" here. I never quite understood why some viewers were taking sides because I can fully relate to both of them.
|
|
|
Post by quietfireca on Aug 1, 2008 18:22:05 GMT -5
Forgive me if I'm repeated what someone has already noted....
I saw Pas de Deux for the first time last night (ya, ya, I'm a fraud, I haven't seen every episode yet - but I'm really close now).
Eames does her own sleight of hand with the ammonia/Vitamin C tablets. So Goren isn't the only magician of the pair!
Maybe that's why she appreciates all the shenanigans in Vanishing Act!
|
|
|
Post by maherjunkie on Aug 2, 2008 8:47:11 GMT -5
Ahh yes, he should be eternally sorry for putting his job over her well being. I wish he would do "relationship talk"- to lay her out if necessary. lay her out? Now there's an unexpected thought! Sorry maherjunkie! I couldn't resist! ;D Please take all the pot-shots you wish at my posts!! I want to be eavesdropping on the relationship talk, even if I'm squirming, but the other? Well, I won't go there...... Besides, a girl could go down in flames for thinking that way here! Now, let's see if I can do some deep thought tonight.... I missed my own double entendre! Not to worry, Quiet, you aren't the first amorous inclined woman here.
|
|
susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
|
Post by susan1212 on Aug 3, 2008 6:25:34 GMT -5
I think it would be easier for them to make up if they were romantically involved. From my personal experiece, I have to disagree. Maybe because I'm a male, but for me it's much more difficult to "make up" with someone I'm emotionally invested in. Fortunately I haven't had serious problems in this regard with Mrs. T, but I admit I have had extreme difficulty with this issue in my past relationships. Maybe I finally matured and grew up by the time I got married! ;D Maybe it is just that I have been married for so long...28yrs!....but sometimes when we argue, rather than go through a heavy discussion, we would prefer to just accept the apologies and "kiss and make up". The Goren/Eames relationship is complicated on a different level. They obviously care about each other, but also know and abide by the rules of working with the opposite sex. The fact that they work so closely and have become friends, makes it even more difficult to know when and where to cross the line. They are in a unique position as partners of the opposite sex ...every day their lives depend on each other, yet they need to keep a distance romantically in order to do and keep their jobs. Personally, I believe they have both closed the door to romance and have chosen their jobs and friendship instead. So this little dance they are doing is their way of slowly gaining forgiveness(on his part) and regaining trust (on hers). To change the subject a little, while still talking about "Vanishing Act", I watched it again last night.(not sure if this is the 10th or 11th time!) I am now wondering if that out loud laugh during the "dollhouse" scene didn't belong to Goren, rather than Eames. Anyone else wondering?
|
|
LO:CI
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 141
|
Post by LO:CI on Aug 3, 2008 7:10:14 GMT -5
Personally, I believe they have both closed the door to romance and have chosen their jobs and friendship instead. Do you think there was a time they were romantically interested in each other? If so, when do you think was this time?
|
|
eames47
Silver Shield Investigator
"What are they saying now???"
Posts: 173
|
Post by eames47 on Aug 3, 2008 7:39:26 GMT -5
Susan,
I believe it was Bobby that laughed there too. And after viewing this episode SOOOO many times, I've noticed something else too. I read somewhere that some people thought that Holiday had said to Eames at the end, "A man pretty close?" but what I heard is "My aim - pretty close?". To which she just smiles and turns around to put the picture back on the mirror/compose herself. After he says this, Goren says to him, "well most good chance guesses usually are" or something like that.
|
|
|
Post by outerbankschick on Aug 3, 2008 18:50:59 GMT -5
Bobby did laugh out loud during the dollhouse scene. He was having such a great time with it, showing Alex how it worked. I loved hearing him laugh.
|
|
susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
|
Post by susan1212 on Aug 4, 2008 5:01:39 GMT -5
Personally, I believe they have both closed the door to romance and have chosen their jobs and friendship instead. Do you think there was a time they were romantically interested in each other? If so, when do you think was this time? Shippers will not agree, but no, I never thought of them as romantically interested ... ever. The first time it ever entered my mind was when it was mentioned on the NBC message board two years ago. I have been a fan since the 1st epi in 2001, and it was a surprise to me that anyone thought of them as "in love". I am a romantic, but I don't see it with these two. JMHO
|
|
susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
|
Post by susan1212 on Aug 4, 2008 5:11:13 GMT -5
Susan, I believe it was Bobby that laughed there too. And after viewing this episode SOOOO many times, I've noticed something else too. I read somewhere that some people thought that Holiday had said to Eames at the end, "A man pretty close?" but what I heard is "My aim - pretty close?". To which she just smiles and turns around to put the picture back on the mirror/compose herself. After he says this, Goren says to him, "well most good chance guesses usually are" or something like that. Eames47 and Outerbankschick, I originally thought that laugh belonged to Eames. Now I think it's Bobby. Glad I'm not alone in this thought! I will have to watch that Holiday/Eames/Goren scene again to say one way or the other about the Holiday comment. My VCR (yes I still own a VCR, even though Wheeler commented that she didn't know they were still being made!) is now broken, so I will have to wait until another repeat of the episode. I am sure I won't have to wait too long. I'll let you know what I think then.
|
|
eva
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 86
|
Post by eva on Aug 4, 2008 5:58:44 GMT -5
Holiday does say something like; "How was/is (not sure here) my aim? Pretty close?" Not a single word about "a man pretty close"
|
|