|
Post by unsteady on Apr 20, 2009 11:44:53 GMT -5
Bah, Sarah's here to be a downer That was boring. Not BAD, but boring. It was absolutely lacking the "zazz" of what made episodes from seasons 1-4 so wonderful. It was definitely not appointment tv for me, just something I might have on while working if I couldn't find something better. This was a retread story I have seen plenty of times before, done just as well on other various cop and drama shows. This was a very serious story that had zero emotional pull for me. It was lacking any depth in explaining/exploring how this mother and son came to be such monsters. I felt no sense of tension or passion to solve the case whatsoever....though yes, Goren's relating to the step-daughter was nice. But that hardly makes for an intriguing episode. Why is it I feel like this show has gotten as subtle as a brick to the head? The step daughter's pulse racing when her step-father approached at the hospital was a perfectly good little detail. done. to. death. I'm not that dense, honest. I didn't need to hear the pulse rate increase, be shown the monitor screen, hear the pulse rate again, then hear the pulse rate start to go down and then be shown the screen AGAIN. Thanks, I got it! Well, as indifferent as I was to this episode, I'm interested to see how the first Goldblum episode goes next week. Perhaps it'll have some actual life to it. Oh, I'm glad you mentioned the heart monitor. Notice that once the monitor has served its purpose, the noise stops altogether. I want to know who's responsible for that mix-up.
|
|
|
Post by quietfireca on Apr 20, 2009 11:53:16 GMT -5
My initial reactions: I enjoyed Goren - he seemed like a man waking up and starting to enjoy his work again. He has too much baggage (and wisdom?) to be that perky insolent man/boy of old - but he can still dish out the insolence.
Eames almost seemed like she was standing back and letting Goren "play". Thus, no snarks. I was shocked when he did the French accent. Now that's a type of behaviour we haven't seen for a while!
Notable difference from the past: Rodgers in the field Goren talking so much at the beginning and using the other detective to choreograph the sequence of events of the crime Better lighting - there used to be some fierce shadows and I often wished I'd been there to light their faces from the bottom. Eames hair looked great!! (how shallow of me) There was a very strange zoom in to Goren. Usually when Goren and Eames are at a desk, the camera frames them both (even if one is just partial), but this time, they did a strange zoom at his face. I can't quite put my finger on it. It might have been done in editing rather than the filming stage.
Am I dense (or watching something else) or was that fact that Sophie (?) was the daughter of Stacey and the "dad" a surprise? I guess I should have wondered more about that year in France. You writers might be able to shed light on this for me, but CI doesn't usually wait till the end to drop bombshells, does it? ie. the daughter issue and the creepy mother/son relationship. When the mom said "I know how you work" my first thought was "no you don't". lol! And a nice acknowledgement directly to Eames "you're better than I thought". Sweet!
This episode definitely had a different feel to it.
and fwiw - when sexual abuse was discussed, Goren stated facts, I got no hint of empathy, just concern.
|
|
|
Post by maherjunkie on Apr 20, 2009 12:05:28 GMT -5
I thought the mother and son would reveal something creepy because she looked suspicioulsy youthful to have a son that age. I think Siena is in Italy.
Of course, you cannot have a sex abuse story without a Totally Useless Female who enables it all and in this case it was two mothers. T.U.F also standing for "Tough shit, I'm getting my needs met so you'll just have to take it". Sometimes a man but rarely.
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Apr 20, 2009 13:09:03 GMT -5
I suspected Sophia (Sophie? I didn't catch the name completely) as Hayes-Fitzgerald's daughter once it was revealed there were young kids in the houselhold. Then when the son and the mother (father and grandmother) stressed how much Sophie (Sophia?) missed Stacey, my suspicions grew. And when the trip to Italy was revealed...well...It was pretty much confirmed.
My take on the heart rate monitor was that it was a great way of visually reinforcing Goren and the audience's suspicions. It did go on a bit, although I'm not sure that's because someone wanted to be sure the audience got it, or if someone really, really liked the affect.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by DonnaJo on Apr 20, 2009 13:56:02 GMT -5
As someone who is quick to rant on when the show is "dumbed down," I loved the whole heart moniter scene! If its been done to death on other shows, I haven't seen it. But then again I watch very few other crime shows. How a mother could turn her head as her husband had sex with her daughter is unfathomable. And then raise her own grandaughter as her daughter? Too sick.
|
|
susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
|
Post by susan1212 on Apr 20, 2009 14:40:16 GMT -5
I thought the French accent was a riot! Very typical of Robert to "play" with an uncooperative, ridiculous character. But just before that scene is the part where he imitates a mobster talking in "old mob code". I liked the way he played that. Eames got a kick out of it - she even smiled, as she did at the French accent! Wow! Two smiles from her in one episode! Cool. Robert was compassionate, understanding, fatherly, protective and kind. But Vincent played these qualities differently than usual. The tone of Robert's voice has become even more subdued. He seems to be coming from a different place since he has met his outer and inner demons head on and survived. There is no more intense rage build up and release. He's calmer. He is a man whose been to hell and back. He seems to have experienced it, maybe is dealing with it in therapy, and is rising from the rubble less emotionally reactive, but more in control of his emotions. He is obviously still feeling his emotions, but he's not a land mine waiting to be stepped on anymore. As most people in therapy tend to "take two steps forward and one step back", I expect to see that rage again though.
I think that because of the type of crime Stacey suffered, Robert had to be more reserved physically too, as he knew touching her would upset her. Since he couldn't be touchy-feely as usual, he had to change his style of questioning a victim. Being unable to use his hands to touch, he didn't use them at all, leaving a void for those of us who enjoy his "handiwork".
Kathy Baker was deliciously evil, sarcastic, and bizarre. She is one of my favorite actresses.
That being said, I was disappointed in the writing, but after reading the interview with Vincent and Kathryn last week, I expected less than dazzling. Looks like we will have to give the writers some time to know the characters better.
|
|
|
Post by tjara on Apr 20, 2009 16:37:27 GMT -5
Hi there! I've only seen this once, and I will have to rewatch to get more details. I just don't get the complete dialogue on first try. I guess I'm on a lonely island here, but I loved it. I thought it was a worthy season premiere, with great performances all over the place... This had so many positive points for me! 1) They still have that interrogation room, and they used it too!! Hallelujah! 2) "Hello, I'm Bobby Goren, the smartest guy in the room!" He came up with so many details in that case, so many little things that he just knew... the gun, the wine,... 3) He plays those perps/or the people he questions. The wine-guy was just one example, and I liked the accent. That was so Bobby Goren!! And Eames and Goren are still good at "tag-teaming". They get the wife, they get Camille (when they talk about her charities)... even the aria seemed like a team effort. Though there wasn't a huge aria. But I'm glad there wasn't - also refer to 6) 4) Bobby at the crime scene... the way he retraced what happened, how he instantly found the news clippings and the scribbeling. Btw., I don't expect there to be a "make-up" with Rodgers, and I liked they seemed to be back on good terms. I think that when Rodgers in Frame said that she "dropped her tray" - that was the "make-up". No, Bobby is not that twitchy detective from eight years ago. But there was enough of Goren to recognize him, yet remember what he's gone through. 5) Great performances by guest actors. I've liked Scott Cohen ever since he was on the Gilmore Girls, and I think he does a proper WASP guy - "ice-cold", arrogant, charming only when he wants to be or needs to be... I thought that the look he gave Stacy in the bathtub was a mixture of fatherly and desire... I actually got scared. And his name - Hays-Fitzgerald. Well-picked name. Rings true. Oh, and btw. - no over the top showing in the bathtub scene. It was suggestive, but not gratuitous. But Stacy's performance was great, too. The angst she's going through, the way she's torn, the way she tries not to talk to Bobby at first. Great performance - and Stacy will have to work through a lot before she can live a normal life. And of course Kathy Baker. She stole the show. She was so creepy, I really thought they were going to reveal that she used to abuse her son. You could tell she was pulling the strings from the get-go, and we only learned little by little how and why she did. (I welcome back on stage: Intent!!!), And how she looses her power when she acknowledges to Eames "You're better than I thought". And how she realizes that he got her, way before her son does... yup - absolute power corrupts absolutely, just like idged said. Isn't it an interesting parallel, how both mother and son think that they can control everything, but for real, they can't? 6) The issue: I liked that this was no child-abuse over the top drama case. For others it might have been boring, I liked the slow speed it had. No rushing, I got to digest the issue. I thought that the whole Sopie bombshell was dropped a little late, but that's because I didn't get it. In fact, they built it up all the while and I missed it. On rewatch, I'll pay close attention. However, I think whoever wrote this ep did good and thorough research into child abuse. So many of the elements were there, wow... when Goren told Stacy that "these guys don't change their pattern" - I cringed. I really did. No SVU feel for me. 7) "Leads" and "Red Herrings". I liked how we learned the details of the case, one by one, and taken as a single clue, they could always mean something else. But then, at the end, they all fell into place... 8) Goren and Stacy. I like how he slowly connected to her - firm, sincere, but always compassionate. He made her trust him - and as Susan pointed out - never touched her in the process. I mean you really want him to hug her, but she clearly didn't wanna be hugged. And I loved how he and Ross (two men, what a great pick!!!) assured her that she wouldn't be made fun of, that she wouldn't be ridiculed in a trial! I loved how Goren sent Hays-Fitzgerald out of the room, firm, but never threatening. The heart monitor was a little much for me, it took away the actresses-chances to portray the reaction, but okay, I can live with that. ----- Others have mentioned that they thought Ross was a little "soft" on his detectives. Wasn't there a scene in which they talked about that this just didn't fit the profile of a drug-deal-gone-awry? I'll have to check for that. I guess they could've show more resiliance to the child abuse issue, but then Ross is an informed guy, and I suspect he has connections. He probably suspected that there was truth to the scandal that Rick leaked to the media, so... well you get the idea. I agree though that EB seemed to be seen less than he used to, but we've heard he'll be more involved this Season, so I'm guessing this was a mere coincidence (at least I'll treat it as such until I've seen more eps). I do expect there will be more Ross-ladended scripts for the other team, given the Nichols connection. My only nitpick would be that I thought Eames wasn't seen enough. I will go an rewatch, honestly I was so thrilled to see Goren back, I paid little attention to her. Poor KE, what I remember of her, I really liked. Will pay closer attention to her during the next round... My paean of praise is done now.
|
|
|
Post by annabelleleigh on Apr 20, 2009 17:33:23 GMT -5
...I think that because of the type of crime Stacey suffered, Robert had to be more reserved physically too, as he knew touching her would upset her. Since he couldn't be touchy-feely as usual, he had to change his style of questioning a victim. Being unable to use his hands to touch, he didn't use them at all, leaving a void for those of us who enjoy his "handiwork".... S1212, my friend, with all due respect: This wasn't Goren's first contact with a molestation or rape victim. I know that -- just as I do -- you have all Goren episodes and performances committed to memory. So please compare and contrast "Playing Dead" with Season One's 14th episode, the magnificent "Homo Homini Lupis" written by Rene Balcer. Which iteration of the character is closest to your heart? With whom did you fall in love? Which episode is more worthy of your Robert? I open this up to anyone else who wants to play. I also pose these questions: - Do you, personally, have standards for this series? - By which episodes have they been set? - How close has "Playing Dead" come to meeting those standards? "Homo Homini Lupis" will be aired at 4 AM ET tonight (that is, 4 AM Tuesday) on USA. Set your DVRs. AL
|
|
|
Post by ragincajun on Apr 20, 2009 17:42:47 GMT -5
...I think that because of the type of crime Stacey suffered, Robert had to be more reserved physically too, as he knew touching her would upset her. Since he couldn't be touchy-feely as usual, he had to change his style of questioning a victim. Being unable to use his hands to touch, he didn't use them at all, leaving a void for those of us who enjoy his "handiwork".... S1212, my friend, with all due respect: This wasn't Goren's first contact with a molestation or rape victim. I know that -- just as I do -- you have all Goren episodes and performances committed to memory. So please compare and contrast "Playing Dead" with Season One's 14th episode, the magnificent "Homo Homini Lupis" written by Rene Balcer. Which iteration of the character is closest to your heart? With whom did you fall in love? Which episode is more worthy of your Robert? I open this up to anyone else who wants to play. "Homo Homini Lupis" will be aired at 4 AM ET tonight (that is, 4 AM Tuesday) on USA. Set your DVRs. AL AL Well I know I was upset to see how Robert Goren acted with the pediphile, but there is a difference. He touched her in Homini , but in this episode, he commented on how she hated her step father touching her, so that might have been the reason he didn't make contact. Also as we all know Goren from Season 1 isn't the Same Goren of Season 8. IN Homini, the Victim wasn't watching the interogation, soooooo maybe this is the reason he didn't get violent with the jerk? In Homini the Victim wasn't watching through the double mirror. Also in Homini the rapist was the murderer of women and children, hundreds. So, after I put Goren down, I am now defending him, go figure.
|
|
|
Post by ragincajun on Apr 20, 2009 17:45:18 GMT -5
probably a stupid question, but can't the people who can't get LOCI download episodes from Amazon?
|
|
|
Post by quietfireca on Apr 20, 2009 18:50:42 GMT -5
probably a stupid question, but can't the people who can't get LOCI download episodes from Amazon? Only if you're in the US, ragin. Us other sorts have to be more creative. And believe me, it's not easy sometimes.... I didn't quite get to the screaming stage last night, but almost.
|
|
|
Post by quietfireca on Apr 20, 2009 18:59:40 GMT -5
I guess I'm on a lonely island here, but I loved it. I thought it was a worthy season premiere, with great performances all over the place... No no no! YOu're not alone!!!!! I think - with all due respect - that we can get analytical to the point of sounding very critical. That was not *my* intention in my posting. With so many months of anticipation, I'm just sort of numb. All I can do is note some of the differences - they're not bad differences. I can absolutely see why they started with this episode. Sex, politics and some of the old spunk in Goren!
|
|
Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
|
Post by Ladyheather on Apr 20, 2009 19:17:21 GMT -5
I agree. It was good and I was so glad it was a good beginning.
I thought the mother started this "relationship" with her son and then passed it on to his children. Yet they didn't seem to go that way. Was he molested by his father, or was it his mother? She knew what he was doing and yet she didn't stop it.
Can anyone answer that? Did it start with her or the father?
|
|
|
Post by Moonbeam on Apr 20, 2009 19:25:36 GMT -5
Since CI has never addressed pedophilia, I thought they handled it with quiet restraint. I say welcome back to the intuitive Goren! There was no real good reason for any Eames' snark, not with this subject matter. Nice touch, keeping the Chief of D's forty feet away from Goren. Ross, always the politico.
|
|
|
Post by annabelleleigh on Apr 20, 2009 19:49:44 GMT -5
Sorry Moonbeam, but pedophilia was the centerpiece of at least two past CI episodes: "Death Roe" in Season 4, and "On Fire" in Season 5. To varying extents both episodes illuminated the respective motives for this heinous crime; Sunday's premiere did not. The fabulously penetrating SarahIvy nailed it when she wrote: This was a retread story I have seen plenty of times before, done just as well on other various cop and drama shows. This was a very serious story that had zero emotional pull for me. It was lacking any depth in explaining/exploring how this mother and son came to be such monsters. Isn't the examination of "criminal intent" the raison d'etre for the series? What excuse does scriptwriter Antoinette Stella have for missing that entirely? AL
|
|