8:01 - "Playing Dead" 2009-04-19

[deathroe]

I really don't have anything to say about this one, or any notes. Perhaps at some later date I will, but I had a hard time staying gripped for much.

My thinking on this has actually changed a little. Rather than beat this dead horse, I can't help but think that Erbe and D'Onofrio--but Erbe in particular, because I thought she was the strongest link last night--deserve a better and different show. A different series, even. Too bad that will never be in the cards.

[quietfireca]

Pedophiles have motives? (intent?)

Is that why they become pedophiles? REally? That sounds too calculated. I thought it stemmed from something entirely different.....

[unsteady]

Apr 20, 2009 20:39:26 GMT -5 deathroe said:

I really don't have anything to say about this one, or any notes. Perhaps at some later date I will, but I had a hard time staying gripped for much.

My thinking on this has actually changed a little. Rather than beat this dead horse, I can't help but think that Erbe and D'Onofrio--but Erbe in particular, because I thought she was the strongest link last night--deserve a better and different show. A different series, even. Too bad that will never be in the cards.

Well, deathroe, I guess a few bad episodes are enough to convince you that a show is just all around bad. I don't know if you've hated this show since the beginning, or whether it crept up on you, but one day even this awful, awful show will end. You will move on. We, however, will be bereft without our Bobby. We need to try to find as much to savor in the shows remaining as we can.

[Jefferaldo]

I thought this episode was a return to the Balcer days. I wouldn't mind if they just completely forgot about the Leight years which is perhaps why they didn't deal with any of the things addressed in Season 7 finale. I also wouldn't be surprised if they don't deal with Wheeler's fiance in the next episode.

That being said, it moved slowly. However, I still enjoyed it more than most of the Leight episodes. As someone mentioned before (I can't be bothered trawling through everything to find who exactly said it, sorry) it was 'Good, not great'.

I felt that the story could have been better without the molestation and the fact that NH-F was a weak little mama's boy. It was definitely lacking something when comparing to episodes from Seasons 1-5 but it has also improved on many things that had taken over in Seasons 6-7. In that sense this episode, to me, is a case of one step back, two steps forward.

What I enjoyed was the aria in the interrogation room. It's been a long time but the fourth star of the series is back!

As I and many others have mentioned the story wasn't the best but the episode had an 'old days' feel to it

I felt that the pedophile storyline was less shocking on CI because (a) both SVU and Mothership have done it before and (b) they didn't shove it in our faces like SVU would with Dets. Benson and Stabler screaming "OHMIGAWD WHAT". They are NYC MCS detectives and when I think of the typical NYC detective, especially one with all the experience that comes with being in MCS, I think of a detective that has seen it all and is no longer surprised by things like this.

No melodrama!

I also enjoyed the fact that Goren and Eames felt like actual partners again. My favourite scenes in the episode included the scene where they are walking down the street talking about 'mob code' and when they go to the 'trucking company'

That's all for now I'll have more to add later. My essay calls for me to finish it =D

Also there's a new Caption This! up!

[outerbankschick]

:wading in carefully:

I just gave this one a second viewing and I liked it even more. There's been a lot of different opinions here, and a lot of thoughts about the "downplaying". I'm going to try and add my two cents coherently here.

I liked the way Bobby treated Neil. If I may make the obvious comparison, Elliot Stabler would've thrown Neil into a wall, probably threatened him, insulted his manhood or some such thing. I found myself glad that CI didn't take that route. Bobby's treatment of Neil was more of a dismissal.

In Neil's office, both detectives were quietly suspicious, playing the game because they had to. At the hospital, Bobby treated Neil with subtle disdain. He cut him off at the knees with a single look, a tiny gesture, and a soft-spoken, "Maybe you could just. . .go back over there. . ." There was no question who was in charge. And Neil, being the wimp he was, walked away.

I'm sure there are as many reasons for pedophilia as there are people who commit these crimes, but Neil's sickness (IMO) grew out of his mother's emasculation of him (which Bobby used effectively against him in both the hospital and in interrogation). Neil needed to feel powerful and so he preyed on someone weaker than he, in order to feel like a "man". And Neil and Camille - funny how their names rhyme - have a creepy relationship that seems to dip its toes into the pool of incest without wading all the way in.

Josie was the perfect, languid, non-person to provide Neil with his latest conquest. Camille wants to know why he didn't marry the "other" woman, the one with the family money and political clout, and Neil's answer is that Josie is "very accepting". My guess is that the other woman he was involved with was too much like his mother. He didn't want another bloodless castration in the form of a powerful wife. He wanted a pretty ornament who would take her "pill" and tune out, thereby allowing his poor, damaged ego to take the lead and feel powerful.

Stacy was nothing more than a plaything to Neil. A live-in doll that he could play with whenever the need took him. A toy to be used until her usefulness was spent, and then he'd move on to someone else. Jessica, the babysitter. Sophie, when she was older. I come out of this episode feeling for Stacy to the point of heartbreak. I know her pain, having dealt with that very same thing in my own life (not myself, but someone very close). The scene in the bathroom had me riveted with growing horror. Not because of what we saw, but because of what we didn't see. It was just enough to let us know exactly what was going to happen. And when Stacy stands in front of the mirror and takes the scissors out, I was left thinking, "But of course. . .what else can she do. . ."

She was trapped in that house, with no one to stand up for her, no one to help her. She didn't have the strength to run anymore, to fight against the "machine" of her family, and so she decided to get out the only way that was left.

Stacy was abandoned time and again by her mother and her grandmother, neither of whom listened to her overt cries for help. And then, into her poor, damaged life walks this big detective with ears sensitive enough to hear the silent cry of her heart even when she's denying the truth to the very people who are there and ready to protect her.

It was the interaction between Bobby and Stacy that held me through this one. There were other things I found cute, like the French accent (which made me smile as wide as Alex did), and the way that our favorite detectives seemed so at ease with one another. But it was the tenderness with which Bobby handled Stacy that grabbed my heart.

No, he didn't hold her, didn't touch her, but I can't make a fair comparison between Stacy and Maggie Colter (HHL). Maggie was a rape victim, yes, and so was Stacy, but that's where the similarity ends. Maggie had a good family life, up until her attack, and her attacker was a brutal stranger.

Very different set of circumstances for Stacy. We don't get a clear picture of what happened with her real father (did he leave or did he die?) but we know that from the time she was a young girl she wasn't safe in her own bed. Her attacker wasn't some brutal stranger, it was the man who was supposed to be acting as her "father". She didn't have one traumatic attack, she had years of them. She couldn't have sex unless she was high. It showed in the teaser, when Rick was trying to unhook her bra and she stopped him, reached for the crack pipe first.

So in this instance, Bobby's gentle distance was a touch in itself. He told her in the hospital that he saw what Neil did, and then asked her if she didn't want him (Neil) touching her. That would have told him, even if he didn't already know, that touching her would make her very uncomfortable, not to mention that it could have terribly upset her. It was easy enough to see she didn't like being touched at all, by anyone. She even shrugged away from her grandmother, however subtly.

And the aria. . .Neil blubbering like the infantile man he was and Camille at once becoming the harridan who screamed at him to stop crying and then falling onto his back and stroking his hair as though he was still her little boy. Eeeek! Like I said, very creepy. Even if she didn't physically molest him, she castrated him emotionally and mentally, with her words and her controlling ways.

I, too, liked the stunning visual in the cemetery, with Bobby walking among the gravestones, looking (to me) more like The Dark Knight than he ever has. And then stopping silently behind Stacy and waiting for her to speak. And yes, when he told her that people with Neil's sickness don't change, it was harder hitting than anything I've ever seen done anywhere. He wasn't Stabler, all attitude and spitting insults, and he didn't plead with Stacy to do something to help. He was matter of fact, blunt to the point of startling her into really thinking about what he said. He didn't say it with the air of a cop, but as a man who's seen enough of this kind of sickness to just "know". His tone left no room for question, for doubt.

As to Alex's lack of snark, I think it was appropriate here. I also sensed her simply stepping back and letting Bobby take the lead, as though she's glad to see her partner beginning to come back to himself. It's been a long haul for her (not to mention us!). I did love the way she figured out how Camille was hiding the payoff for the hit on Rick, and told her so in that tone that said "Come on! Did you really think you were that smart?" And that quiet deference from Camille ("You're better than I thought.") was a nice touch.

I also liked the obvious discomfort in Bobby's eyes when Ross said the Chief of D's was coming in, and then Ross's nicely done "keep away", by walking toward the Chief before he got too close to them. Nice to see Ross not so much at odds with his detectives this time, especially with a politically charged case. If he's learned anything by now it's that Bobby and Alex are going to follow the case wherever it leads and the more politicking that goes on, the harder they're going to push.

Looking forward to next week now, and the introduction of the newest detective to the CI team.

[outerbankschick]

Rewatching again. . .

Cute little tidbit: Alex shops for shoes while she's searching for clues. A girl after my own heart! ;D

[idget]

Idget here with just a few more points, first I want to thank Ragincajun, I missed it at first when she pointed out the shooter was Mitch from Prisoner. It was really killing me trying to figure out which episode he was in before. A comment on the heart monitor, they are usually set to go off if a person's vital signs reach a critical point such as a pulse over 100 or BP over 150/100 or an oxygen sat. lower than 92%, but when the number once again stabilizes the alarm goes off. Believe me those things are annoying! And last, a point about the state of Rodgers and Goren's relationship. I wondered why at the crime scene Bobby didn't automatically go over to the body and start examining it like he usually does, then in rewatching it I noticed Rodgers was kneeling by the body when they first enter the room. So maybe he still doesn't feel comfortable around her. The only time he even acknowledges her is to ask why the body was moved. I hope I am wrong and that they are back to their old relationship, because that is one of my favorite things about the show is they way he used to try to annoy her.

[SarahIvy]

AL, fabulously penetrating? I'm very flattered, particularly coming from you, as you're very much so yourself with inspiring frequency!

Apr 20, 2009 21:18:26 GMT -5 @unsteady said:

Well, deathroe, I guess a few bad episodes are enough to convince you that a show is just all around bad. I don't know if you've hated this show since the beginning, or whether it crept up on you, but one day even this awful, awful show will end. You will move on. We, however, will be bereft without our Bobby. We need to try to find as much to savor in the shows remaining as we can.

Most certainly, Deathroe doesn't need me speaking for her, but the tone of this post struck a bit of a nerve with me so I'd like to address it briefly myself.

Unsteady, since you appear to be new, maybe you aren't aware of how longstanding a lot of the posters here are, or what their levels of individual interest in the show are or have been in the past.

But I think it's safe to say there's at least a few of us here who are AVID fans of this series, but who have all become pretty jaded sometime in the past 1-3 seasons. Obviously, not everyone feels the same way, and that's part of what makes this board interesting...we can politely disagree and learn from each other's point of view. I may be deeply disheartened with the show, but I never feel as though my observations or feelings about it are poo-poo'd by those who are still enjoying it more.

And in turn, I truly enjoy reading the observations of those who are still really gung ho! There's a lot of interesting stuff in this thread. I find there to be value in both, just as I find value in Deathroe's post about not feeling gripped enough to dissect the episode, because for the most part I felt the same way as I watched.

[idget]

Sorry, I forgot one more thing I wanted to add, when Ross mentioned the Chief of D's was coming down he looked as uncomfortable as Goren and Eames about seeing him. I wonder if he isn't invited to the late night poker games anymore? Also is the Chief of D's like a rapper and needs an entourage to escort him everywhere?

[susan1212]

AL said:
S1212, my friend, with all due respect: This wasn't Goren's first contact with a molestation or rape victim. I know that -- just as I do -- you have all Goren episodes and performances committed to memory. So please compare and contrast "Playing Dead" with Season One's 14th episode, the magnificent "Homo Homini Lupis" written by Rene Balcer.

Which iteration of the character is closest to your heart? With whom did you fall in love? Which episode is more worthy of your Robert?

I open this up to anyone else who wants to play. I also pose these questions:

- Do you, personally, have standards for this series?
- By which episodes have they been set?
- How close has "Playing Dead" come to meeting those standards?

"Homo Homini Lupis" will be aired at 4 AM ET tonight (that is, 4 AM Tuesday) on USA. Set your DVRs.

AL





I do know that this wasn't Robert's first contact with a molestation or rape victim. Maybe I wasn't clear when stating that he knew touching her would upset her...he knew because of how Stacey reacted to her step-father. He was working this case, not HHL. Each case is different. Each victim is different. He observes the victim and tries to figure out the best way he can get through to her/him. I think I would have to agree with Rajun in regard to her comparison between HHL and Playing Dead, and OBC's as well. I have nothing to add to their remarks regarding same.

As far as which iteration of character is closest to my heart? Robert Goren is, in his heart, the same man who arrived on the scene in 2001. He is compassionate, kind, generous, caring, gentle, and honest. And I am not wistful for the Robert of Season 1, because on the level I fell for him, he is still there. My favorite things about him are at his core and I believe will always remain at his core. Whether he is hugging a young girl who was raped and needed hugging or sitting next to a teenager extending his understanding and aid, he is still the man I fell for. His intellect, which I find extremely attractive, is as sharp as ever – still picking up small clues that others miss, and using what he has learned to obtain justice. He is complex - mysterious and obvious, sweet and obnoxious, intense and goofy, satisfying and frustrating, heartbreakingly sad and adorably cute – but always lovable in my eyes. So there is nothing about Robert Goren for me to complain about. He is not perfect, never has been, never will be. He's just a wonderful human being...well, fictionally speaking, of course!

The writing for this show is another subject. The best writing was done with Rene Balcer at the helm, IMO. Not all of his episodes were perfect, but damn close! But Rene Balcer is gone. He is steering the Mothership now and I cannot bring him back. I certainly miss him, but I don't see the point in dwelling on it. And I watch L & O regularly to see his work. But if I want to see Robert Goren, which I do, I must see what Vincent does with what he receives for a script. Most of the time I like the scripts. But even if the writing has let me down on occasion, Vincent never has. I never saw him as phoning it in. He is too professional for that. If he is playing Goren a certain way I might not understand right away, sooner or later it becomes apparent why. And I enjoy entertaining ideas as to why he would play a certain scene in a certain way.

I prefer finding the good points of this show to discuss because A. there are so many and B. this IS my playtime. I just want to have fun! I don't enjoy criticizing my favorite show. I enjoy finding the good in it and praising that. That may seem “Pollyana”-like, but real life holds enough criticism. I don't need to look for it during may leisure time. And it is still the best show on TV, IMO.

Please note: I have expressed my feelings, but don't feel that other opinions are wrong or other people's reasons for participating in this or any other board, are wrong. I agree with many cliches – “To each his own”, “Different strokes for different folks, and my favorite... “Whatever”.

[quietfireca]

Apr 21, 2009 0:17:08 GMT -5 susan1212 said:

As far as which iteration of character is closest to my heart? Robert Goren is, in his heart, the same man who arrived on the scene in 2001. He is compassionate, kind, generous, caring, gentle, and honest. And I am not wistful for the Robert of Season 1, because on the level I fell for him, he is still there. My favorite things about him are at his core and I believe will always remain at his core. Whether he is hugging a young girl who was raped and needed hugging or sitting next to a teenager extending his understanding and aid, he is still the man I fell for. His intellect, which I find extremely attractive, is as sharp as ever – still picking up small clues that others miss, and using what he has learned to obtain justice. He is complex - mysterious and obvious, sweet and obnoxious, intense and goofy, satisfying and frustrating, heartbreakingly sad and adorably cute – but always lovable in my eyes. So there is nothing about Robert Goren for me to complain about. He is not perfect, never has been, never will be. He's just a wonderful human being...well, fictionally speaking, of course!

I prefer finding the good points of this show to discuss because A. there are so many and B. this IS my playtime. I just want to have fun! I don't enjoy criticizing my favorite show. I enjoy finding the good in it and praising that. That may seem “Pollyana”-like, but real life holds enough criticism. I don't need to look for it during may leisure time. And it is still the best show on TV, IMO.

Beautiful.

[quietfireca]

Apr 20, 2009 20:39:26 GMT -5 deathroe said:

I really don't have anything to say about this one, or any notes. Perhaps at some later date I will, but I had a hard time staying gripped for much.

Deathroe, deathroe, wherefore art thou, deathroe?
Come out and play! I'm waiting for YOU.

Can I just say that we all have waited so long with such huge expectations that there was no possible way for the show creators to please us all.

Deathroe, you will be looking for literary parallels and subtleties that perhaps the new writers cannot produce. Are they there? I need you to tell me! I'm a bear of very little brain in these matters!

[SarahIvy]

Oh, I forgot I meant to answer these interesting questions posed by AL. (I'm in italics)


- Do you, personally, have standards for this series?

I do, and the show has not met them for much of the past 3 seasons (with some very good exceptions, but I'm not going to start listing). As for what those standards are, for me they are to do with the writing, lead acting, and quality of guest performances (though I believe the latter two are greatly influenced by the first).

- By which episodes have they been set?

Pretty much anything from seasons 1-4. If someone were to express an interest in the show and want some pointers on great episodes to start with there isn't a single episode from seasons 6 or 7 I would even consider suggesting.

- How close has "Playing Dead" come to meeting those standards?

It did somewhat poorly on all accounts, it felt lifeless to me (yes, playing dead, har har ). One of the things I have loved about this show is the passion and life in it....the ability to make me care deeply, and not just about the plight of one Robert Goren. What has gone missing for me is a deep interest in the "characters of the week" both good and bad. It has been a very long time since I've felt that pull of keen interest in a victim or killer and their motives and history. There are so many older episodes that stand up to the test of time and I still find myself marveling at how they unravel and draw me in!

I guess you could say one of my standards is "rewatchability." There are so many older episodes where I still get just as hooked as the first time I saw them. I'm still watching the show (obviously) but I rarely see an episode anymore that begs me to enjoy it again and again.

[idget]

Susan, that is one of the best descriptions of Robert Goren I have ever read and I second it!!!!!

[caitlen]

Here i was, all set to write my thoughts and ideas, and, susan1212 did it for me, honestly and politely