Post by tjara on Apr 21, 2009 3:40:09 GMT -5
Another tiny sweet tidbit! Isn't it kind of a "tongue in the cheek"-moment that NHF promises the girl we see in the wine cellar (forget her name) an internship?
Someone asked about Stacy's father. I think at some point they said that he just left.
And there we have our intent. Never completely spelled out in the episode, but wonderfully portrayed by Kathy Baker and Scott Cohen. She overpowered him, so he needed to overpower someone. Someone weak, preferably, so he could control his victim. The way the both break down at the end when they realize that the tide has turned against them - wow!! I can see why Vincent and Kate liked that scene, and why they liked playing it.
Oh, and as for spelling out - we never see the detectives spelling out what all the clues mean until the final aria. That also felt like "old-school" CI.
@obc
Thank you so much for your post. I couldn't have said it better. I especially would like to highlight this, as it stood out for me in the episode, too - it's about the bathtub scene:
Also, to expand on this:
This was done so nicely, because when it started, Bobby even opened the curtain a little more so the family would be able to see. That was so telling. Yet at the end, when he finally sits down with Stacy, he walk all around the bed, then sitting at a spot where I think they can't see him anymore. (also because in between a nurse closes the curtain again)
Also, the scene was important for the subtelty and for his relationship with Stacy. In that scene, Bobby overpowered NHF, quietly, but he did. That must be something new for Stacy, because aside from her Grandma, no one in the family is able to do that. And Bobby protects her from him in the process.
@al
I do not think that it's possible to compare Maggie Coulter and Stacy - or the streak they touch within Bobby Goren. Maggie was raped by a stranger, and (not to mitigate it), but it was a rather punctual event. Through her rape, Maggie started to identify with her offender, being fascinated by his strength and therefore she detached herself from her family, not from her rapist. Bobby didn't handle her tenderly at first, but he slowly picked apart the "image" that she had made of her offender. Maggie was betrayed by her father, but not directly, and her mother stood up her in the end, even if she couldn't prevent the rape itself.
If you refer back to the EOTW:HHL Thread you will also see that I have and had issues with that scene, mainly because I didn't think that Maggie could so easily relate to another stranger and because I would've wanted Eames to handle it.
Stacy was different. Her abuse went on for a couple of years, but she never identified with her offender, who was someone she knew and should've been able to trust. She hated him, yet she was tied to him by a child. She too, detached herself from her family, but she also detached herself from herself. Stacy was abandoned by everyone who she should've been able to trust (father, mother, stepfather, grandmother) Bobby handled her differently, because he never had to convince her that he was a bad guy. He only had to convince her that she could and had to fight him.
Jefferaldo
They probably won't address it in the first episode, but they will in the end They have to... (not going to write more, I don't know who's seen the interview at the USA site and I don't want to spoil)
idget (I think it was you who asked it)
I guess ever since "Untethered", Ross isn't invited to Poker Games anymore. He was tainted by Goren's actions, too. His unability to control Goren definitely reflected on him. Both Ross and Eames got notes in their jacket because of Goren's actions and how they helped him, even if Ross only came in late. He lied to the wardon, after all.
SarahIvy
It's funny how my experience is different. I'm just catching up on older eps, and I don't think they are all that perfect, even if people sometimes say they are. I know there are eps that I won't rewatch, and rewatch, and rewatch... but CI has never managed to completely dissappoint me.
Someone asked about Stacy's father. I think at some point they said that he just left.
Even if she didn't physically molest him, she castrated him emotionally and mentally, with her words and her controlling ways.
And there we have our intent. Never completely spelled out in the episode, but wonderfully portrayed by Kathy Baker and Scott Cohen. She overpowered him, so he needed to overpower someone. Someone weak, preferably, so he could control his victim. The way the both break down at the end when they realize that the tide has turned against them - wow!! I can see why Vincent and Kate liked that scene, and why they liked playing it.
Oh, and as for spelling out - we never see the detectives spelling out what all the clues mean until the final aria. That also felt like "old-school" CI.
@obc
Thank you so much for your post. I couldn't have said it better. I especially would like to highlight this, as it stood out for me in the episode, too - it's about the bathtub scene:
Not because of what we saw, but because of what we didn't see. It was just enough to let us know exactly what was going to happen.
Also, to expand on this:
He cut him off at the knees with a single look, a tiny gesture, and a soft-spoken, "Maybe you could just. . .go back over there. . ." There was no question who was in charge.
This was done so nicely, because when it started, Bobby even opened the curtain a little more so the family would be able to see. That was so telling. Yet at the end, when he finally sits down with Stacy, he walk all around the bed, then sitting at a spot where I think they can't see him anymore. (also because in between a nurse closes the curtain again)
Also, the scene was important for the subtelty and for his relationship with Stacy. In that scene, Bobby overpowered NHF, quietly, but he did. That must be something new for Stacy, because aside from her Grandma, no one in the family is able to do that. And Bobby protects her from him in the process.
@al
I do not think that it's possible to compare Maggie Coulter and Stacy - or the streak they touch within Bobby Goren. Maggie was raped by a stranger, and (not to mitigate it), but it was a rather punctual event. Through her rape, Maggie started to identify with her offender, being fascinated by his strength and therefore she detached herself from her family, not from her rapist. Bobby didn't handle her tenderly at first, but he slowly picked apart the "image" that she had made of her offender. Maggie was betrayed by her father, but not directly, and her mother stood up her in the end, even if she couldn't prevent the rape itself.
If you refer back to the EOTW:HHL Thread you will also see that I have and had issues with that scene, mainly because I didn't think that Maggie could so easily relate to another stranger and because I would've wanted Eames to handle it.
Stacy was different. Her abuse went on for a couple of years, but she never identified with her offender, who was someone she knew and should've been able to trust. She hated him, yet she was tied to him by a child. She too, detached herself from her family, but she also detached herself from herself. Stacy was abandoned by everyone who she should've been able to trust (father, mother, stepfather, grandmother) Bobby handled her differently, because he never had to convince her that he was a bad guy. He only had to convince her that she could and had to fight him.
Jefferaldo
I also wouldn't be surprised if they don't deal with Wheeler's fiance in the next episode.
They probably won't address it in the first episode, but they will in the end They have to... (not going to write more, I don't know who's seen the interview at the USA site and I don't want to spoil)
idget (I think it was you who asked it)
I guess ever since "Untethered", Ross isn't invited to Poker Games anymore. He was tainted by Goren's actions, too. His unability to control Goren definitely reflected on him. Both Ross and Eames got notes in their jacket because of Goren's actions and how they helped him, even if Ross only came in late. He lied to the wardon, after all.
SarahIvy
The best writing was done with Rene Balcer at the helm, IMO. Not all of his episodes were perfect, but damn close! But Rene Balcer is gone.
It's funny how my experience is different. I'm just catching up on older eps, and I don't think they are all that perfect, even if people sometimes say they are. I know there are eps that I won't rewatch, and rewatch, and rewatch... but CI has never managed to completely dissappoint me.