Chatter with VDO

[skittles4me]

chatter.usanetwork.com/?show=loci/spoiler



SPOILER WARNING:

Y'all. VDO gave a big spoiler that pretty much sinks the Goren and Eames ship. :sigh:

I'm so very disappointed- I don't think I will continue to enjoy the show. Seriously. My heart is broken.

I'm also a bit angry. Why tell us now before the season is over and when they still want good ratings?

But ...... still mostly sad. You are a nice group of people and I enjoy discussing all of LOCI with you, but such a big part of it for me has been crushed I don't know if I'll get over it...

:sniff- reaching for Kleenex:

[kacesq]

skittles, what was the spoiler? I know what he said he preferred, but I didn't take that as a spoiler...

Sorry, hon. I did think of you all as I was following the chat. I wasn't altogether thrilled with the Nicole comment, myself

[angua]

Posted this elsewhere, posting it here too.

Okay, before you abandon something you've devoted a lot of your life to for however many years now Skittles, consider this: VDO is really just another person who has his own opinion on the G/E relationship. He is not a writer, he is not a producer, he's a major part of the series of course but his opinion has no real weight in how others will interrpret the relationship. It's just his opinion, it is not more vallid than any shipper's opinion because his is not the deciding vote.

Personally, I think Goren's secretly been in love with Eames for a while but that they should not get together; but I hate the fact that he hurt my shippy friends. Yoiu just watch--he'll get so much backlash over this from his bosses that he'll have to retract his statement at a later time.

There's a saying: opinions are like noses--everyone's got them. You have a right to your opinion, you even have the right to think someone else's opinion is wrong and yours is right. If this were not true, I'd be in jail for life. Trust me on this. Relax; just because he's an actor does not mean his opinion is more valid than any shippers'.

[Leonore]

I've watched this show since the first episode aired in 2001 and was on the other board. I don't post much, as you can easily tell by my numbers, but I do read a good bit of the content here and I think the opinions are mostly interesting...people seeing different things in the nuances of each episode. Let me further add that I don't ever say that anyone is wrong for their opinion.

All that being said, I have to admit that I don't get the shipper thing, the love angle, whatever you want to call it. Sorry!

I've watched Goren and Eames build a partnership that is based on support, confidence, faith and trust in each other. Do they love and care for each other? Yes, very much so in a platonic way!

My hope is that from these therapy sessions we see Goren realize how much Eames has been there for him through his roughest times and that he can verbally express and acknowledge his gratitude for that support and that they can be two fully realized characters whose strengths compliment and complete each other as a team in tandem to catch the baddest of the bad guys.

They will have then come full circle in my opinion. From Eames trying to get away from Goren (the letter from ITWSH) to Goren recognizing her as his full partner, whose strength and abilities are weapons in his arsenal.

Many people also seemed to agree with D'Onofrio's take on things last night.

[Patcat]

I confess that I write shipper fanfic, and I can see Goren and Eames together in a romantic relationship. But I also think it would be terrific to see a professional, friendly relationship between a man and a woman in a TV series where the relationship isn't based on sex.

Patcat

[skittles4me]

Hey! Thanks Angua and Kacesq for the pep talks! I appreciate it!

Life goes on.

Leonore- I like your idea of Goren and Eames coming full circle. I hope they do get a chance to acknowledge that they don't take each other for granted.

You are right in that many fans agree with VDO and see only the platonic relationship. However, there are a lot of shippers too. There is a shipper's forum (not the one on the USA board), LiveJournal communities, and other blogs. LOCI fanfiction is, I'm guessing, 90% Goren/Eames romance, and there are enough Goren/Eames love song videos on YouTube to waste an entire weekend.

I agree that no one is right or wrong in how they interpret the nuances of an episode and no opinions are right or wrong. It's just the shippers are feeling very disappointed today because we feel our opinions have been crushed.

Patcat, I don't think many people actually want to see Bobby and Alex in bed, and by now,IMO, their relationship wouldn't be based on sex even if it did go there. Most of my shippy friends and I just enjoyed the possibility and the perceived subtle nuances Leonore mentioned.
Now many of us feel that has been taken away from us. It's sad.


BTW Patcat, I enjoy your stories!

[outerbankschick]

Actually I think I'd like to say that folks should probably give Vincent a break. He's entitled to his opinion of his own character, just like the rest of us are.

IMO, there shouldn't be any said "backlash" and no need for said "retraction" because he gave his opinion when asked for it. It's the truth of how he feels about it - and as stated above, he doesn't write the scripts so there's no need to blame him for any "spoilers" or anything else in that regard.

I do hope the person who asked the question was ready and willing for whatever answer they were going to get.

And I do have to add that if he had answered the other way - well, don't y'all think the rest of us who are non-shippers would just have to suck it up and let him have his opinion?

Because that's where I come down on it.

[outerbankschick]

Oh I thought the Nicole comment was funny as hell! ;D

[outerbankschick]

A quick word about imagination...

It's free to roam wherever it wants, regardless of where Goren and Eames are in the show. That's part of why so many folks love to indulge in fan fiction.

In the fictional realm, one can put either of them with whomever one likes!

[skittles4me]

May 16, 2011 18:56:55 GMT -5 outerbankschick said:

Actually I think I'd like to say that folks should probably give Vincent a break. He's entitled to his opinion of his own character, just like the rest of us are.

IMO, there shouldn't be any said "backlash" and no need for said "retraction" because he gave his opinion when asked for it. It's the truth of how he feels about it - and as stated above, he doesn't write the scripts so there's no need to blame him for any "spoilers" or anything else in that regard.

I do hope the person who asked the question was ready and willing for whatever answer they were going to get.

And I do have to add that if he had answered the other way - well, don't y'all think the rest of us who are non-shippers would just have to suck it up and let him have his opinion?

Because that's where I come down on it.

Of course VDO is entitled to his opinion. The thing is.... this twittering was a PR thing that was on the USA site with the star of one its shows. A star who says he wants the show to come back for another season. This star disappointed and alienated a chunk of their fan base with what I understood to be a spoiler. Not a good business move. He should have been more ambiguous and diplomatic. If his answer had been the opposite and he said "oh yes, they are going to get together" people would have been upset about that spoiler too.


It wasn't just a casual chat- it can have consequences. Sure he is entitled to his opinion- and people are entitled to stop watching the show. Personally, I'm tired of the poor tortured oh-so-unlucky Goren show. I watch it for Eames and the ship and now I don't have a reason to continue.

[idget]

Well on a lighter note I am disapointed that Goren is a briefs man. I always pictured him in our, er, his bed in boxers.

[outerbankschick]

I suppose I simply have a different opinion of his opinion. He's entitled to it and if it had gone the other way, I wouldn't be complaining about it. I'd happily show him the courtesy of allowing him to "alienate" me for the sake of telling the truth about his own opinion on the matter.

But that's just my opinion.

idget - he shattered my illusions about Bobby in Burberry boxers! ROTFL! ;D

I do love the fact that he prefers Goren as the flawed hero, too!

Edited to add that if the show is to go on for another season, obvious shipping cannot happen. The moment Goren and Eames actually become involved, the show is over. They couldn't realistically stay partnered up at work and stats of other shows support the fact that once the ambiguity is removed and the tension eased by an actual involvement, whether seen or simply iimplied, the shine is gone and the show's ratings take a distinct tumble. It's the "what if" that keeps people going...and one man's opinion does not take that away.

Now if DW or Chris Brancato had said that...well that's another story...

But keep in mind that Rene Balcer said almost as much in an interview on the S3 DVD extras...

Barbi

[Leonore]

[/quote]
It wasn't just a casual chat- it can have consequences. Sure he is entitled to his opinion- and people are entitled to stop watching the show. Personally, I'm tired of the poor tortured oh-so-unlucky Goren show. I watch it for Eames and the ship and now I don't have a reason to continue. [/quote]

Thanks Skittles for not being too upset with what I said. I hope you can and will keep watching the show for Eames. I guess I've never thought really seriously about the shipper aspect because (to me) if they were involved, they wouldn't have been partnered together and that to me was the whole point_they were a team.

If we have to see this show end (and I hope we don't), I would like to see Goren and Eames walking down a quiet street or sitting on a bench in Central Park and have him tell her that she was never there just to carry his water and that she's the only one in Major Case who would or could have stuck by him through all the craziness and kicked his butt when he needed it! Like she said in Pas de deux: "Bobby, you know I'm good for the ride."

Also, I think the clues for this have been in the episodes. In Consoler, Eames asks if it's too late for catechism class when she reads about the dating site and in last night's episode she tells Naomi's character it's hard to find a man. Goren is standing right there!

Eames still has plenty left to say and do and I hope you'll be along for the ride!

[kacesq]

Oh, the briefs question, lol. Yep, count me in as one who never figured Bobby for a briefs man. However, I will use my imagination and continue to think of him as a boxers guy.

And outerbankschick, I don't need Nicole alive in any one's mind, on earth, in fan fic, etc. I need her dead, DEAD, DEAD!!! BTW, did anyone watch Smallville finale? John Glover's character underwent something that made me LMAO only because I'm a CI/Frame fan.

What did Rene say in the S3 extras? I have S3 on DVD and don't remember...but as for ships in the L&O universe, I think you have to take the subtle moments and play with them in your mind however you want to go...the only confirmed relationship we EVER had in L&O was Jack/Claire on the mothership and that was so subtle that supposedly Jill Hennessy had to be told that yes, Jack and Claire were an item. And viewers didn't get absolute confirmation until poor Claire died. Even the Logan/Olivet relationship is still up for discussion as the cop Olivet had the relationship with is never mentioned by name.

For all we know, if L&O runs true to form, maybe in 2020, on L&O: Mars, the captain will talk about two major case detectives who dated.

I'm with Patcat, though, at the end of it all. I enjoy shipper aspects and wouldn't mind if G/E did have a relationship, but still love the idea that a male/female partnership can be strong in all respects and still be platonic.

[skittles4me]

:sigh: I'm really feeling like the forum freak right now, but I'm feeling misunderstood. Maybe I'm not good at expressing my thoughts, but I'm going to try to explain.

Outerbankschick: I suppose I simply have a different opinion of his opinion. He's entitled to it and if it had gone the other way, I wouldn't be complaining about it. I'd happily show him the courtesy of allowing him to "alienate" me for the sake of telling the truth about his own opinion on the matter.

But that's just my opinion.

I think I've figured out our breakdown in communication here. You feel like he was just tossing out an opinion. I feel like it was a big spoiler- like I was 3/4 way thru a great book and someone told me how it ended.
I hope it is just an opinion! I would find that hopeful!
(and I still think it was the wrong venue in which to be so blunt but let's agree to disagree )


Outerbankschick:
Edited to add that if the show is to go on for another season, obvious shipping cannot happen. The moment Goren and Eames actually become involved, the show is over. They couldn't realistically stay partnered up at work and stats of other shows support the fact that once the ambiguity is removed and the tension eased by an actual involvement, whether seen or simply iimplied, the shine is gone and the show's ratings take a distinct tumble. It's the "what if" that keeps people going...and one man's opinion does not take that away.

Leonore: Thanks Skittles for not being too upset with what I said. I hope you can and will keep watching the show for Eames. I guess I've never thought really seriously about the shipper aspect because (to me) if they were involved, they wouldn't have been partnered together and that to me was the whole point_they were a team.

Here is our breakdown:

I DON'T ACTUALLY WANT TO SEE THEM GET TOGETHER ON THE SHOW. MANY shippers feel that way. I stated this in my response to a comment made by Patcat above:
"... I don't think many people actually want to see Bobby and Alex in bed, and by now,IMO, their relationship wouldn't be based on sex even if it did go there. Most of my shippy friends and I just enjoyed the possibility and the perceived subtle nuances Leonore mentioned.
Now many of us feel that has been taken away from us. It's sad."

See? It is just a fantasy- that these 2 beautiful, lonely people who have had sadness in their lives, and have been so close for so long, might find love and happiness together and ride off into the sunset at the end of the series... or when one of them moves on professionally. WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO SEE IT! We just want to be able to think it could happen and have fun looking for hints.
It is going to be difficult to hold onto that fantasy now.

.
But keep in mind that Rene Balcer said almost as much in an interview on the S3 DVD extras...
RB also said Eames' late husband would never be mentioned.

I hope this clears things up. ;D