5:06 & 5:07 "In the Wee Small Hours" 2005-11-06

[blucougar57]

I've read this whole thread, and I'm spitting chips that we probably won't get to see this episode until mid next year. That is totally not fair.
Can someone give me a complete run-down of the episode? I don't care about spoilers, it won't ruin it for me. So many vague-ish comments have been made, and I'm desperately curious to know more.
Was Goren injured in this ep? What happened to his mother? How was Connie brought back into it? What happened during Eames' testimony, and between her and Goren afterwards?
If anyone is so inclined, could you please, pleaseemail me at: [e-mail]
I'd love a copy of the episode, actually, but I won't push my luck.

[Sirenna]

I liked it very much too.

Well except for the part when my cable went out which happened around the last eight minutes or so. Does anyone know, Nicky? Techguy, criminalmastermind? if it's going to be repeated any time soon.

I loved the new take on the LO:ci family sort of like: I know I have to love you, new member, but I'm not turning my back on you either! Eames and Barek are definately the more mature of the four! The boys kept sniffing at each other to see who had the lead while the ladies got on with solving the case. Remember the scene when they figured out Sinatra recorded at a now abandoned building and that's where the girl might be? Nothing surprised either Logan nor Goren more than to realise each of them knew precisely as much as the other after all!

This episode really showed off how an ensemble cast can work together brilliantly. The dialogue built on the complicated plot and was given to exactly the right character to say. That's how well the writer's understand the personalities they've created and the actors with whom they're working. Remember they're all still pretty new to each other, you'd expect some bumps and discombobulations but no, nothing of the sort. It was sublime on so many levels!

[Summerfield]

Wasn't that Annie Littleton's husband from Chinoise playing the male teacher/chaparone?

[jaquetta]

I don't think it was Annie Littleton's husband, but then, I have no idea. They re-use people like crazy on L&O.

Words cannot describe how much I loved this ep! (of course, I'll be using words to try). From having all four of the leads up front and center, more Carver, a Branch sighting - the court room! and Connie.

I actually gasped w/delight when I saw Connie. For some reason, that is one of my favorite eps. I love how he and Ethan bonded in prison.

Branch ripping up the warrant and signing one of his own I thought was a two fold effort - it protected Carver somewhat, and it gave Branch the doing good where people could see. I'll have to rewatch though. That was just my impression watching it last night.

Boy, I thought everyone in turn was responsible for Bethany's death. The boys. The chaperone. Ethan. The Judge (who was slimey and horrid!). In the kitchen for a moment I thought Ethans' mother was the murderer, but then went for the red herring Judge.

Speaking of, wow, what a snake. He really hit back hard. Funny how he really only attacked the men, I guess Eames and Barek didn't have any actual dirt on them. He hit Goren the hardest - going after his mother like that. I guess he really, really did not want the rape to come out, since he wasn't guilty of the murder. Or maybe he really was protecting his son. Not Ethan, necessarily, but his son. Who just happened to be Ethan.

Great, great ep.

[Techguy]

sirenna said:

Does anyone know, Nicky? Techguy, criminalmastermind? if it's going to be repeated any time soon.

I posted this info on the Preview thread, but it's worth mentioning again. This episode will be on USA on Friday 11/18 at 11PM ET, and on NBC on Saturday 11/19 at 8PM ET--unless they change their minds/schedules.

[NikkiGreen]

I may never view DS9 the same way again!

[kawaiidragonfoe821]

yes indeed, she deserves an emmy for that proformance bravo! ;D. Still, they seem so close as partners, its strange to me that she didnt tell him about it?
Goren was very noble indeed, he could have become mightly offended & rightly so, she bearly gave herself any chance to know him before she submitted it. But the fact that she never sent it shows that she most likely agonized for a long period of time over it before making a final decision, parhaps thats what Bobby saw & respected... what a wonderful character.

LOL she once thought him 'anti-social (sp???)' if she thinks he is anti-social she should meet me

[Jefferaldo]

jaquetta said:

Speaking of, wow, what a snake. He really hit back hard. Funny how he really only attacked the men, I guess Eames and Barek didn't have any actual dirt on them. He hit Goren the hardest - going after his mother like that. I guess he really, really did not want the rape to come out, since he wasn't guilty of the murder. Or maybe he really was protecting his son. Not Ethan, necessarily, but his son. Who just happened to be Ethan.

Great, great ep.

Well he did try to get Barek -- how her FBI file was pulled and got the info for his lawyer to pick on Eames on the stand.

[Cassie]

summerfield said:

Wasn't that Annie Littleton's husband from Chinoise playing the male teacher/chaparone?

I think your right Summerfield

When they update this site, you can check it out at

epguides.com/LawandOrderCriminalIntent/

[Patcat]

Eames probably never told Goren about the transfer request for the same reason she was so upset about its revelation--she knew it would hurt him. And after five years, I suspect it was buried deep in her memory. And I think that Goren recognized that.

Bringing up that transfer probably turned into a big mistake for Garrett's lawyer. Instead of casting doubt on Goren's motivation, it provided an opportunity for Eames to make a public and convincing declaration about her partner. And she was darn convincing.

Garrett played dirty, but he made the classic LOCI villain mistake--he underestimated his opponents--Goren, Eames, Logan, Barek, Carver and the NYPD. And his wife, come to think of it.

Patcat

[jaquetta]

jefferaldo, I should have written that he (the judge) only successfully attacked the men. Barak didn't have anything in her FBI file that he could use and what he had on Eames against Goren gave her a chance to say how much she admires him now, and basically refute what the judge wanted to hear in court. But it must have been hard to hear for both of them.

The worst was what happened to Bobby's mother.

[aboutnici]

That Judge Garrett made a big mistake of messing with Goren's Mother, If I were him, I'll walk straight to him and smack him across the face real bad!

Oh, I really love Kathryn Erbe's performance on th3 witness stand and Goren's expression on his face when he learned that she filed a transfer!

Still, the writers did a great job of putting these four detectives (Goren ,Eames, Logan , and Barek) together on one case.

Somebody needs to give them a nomination on their performances!

[NicoleMarie]

I am dangerously outnumbered here. And it sucks!

I still have my migraine, so forgive me if I'm a bit scatter-brained!. After a second, and third viewing, my response is the same as the first : UGH.

I felt like I was watching a SVU show. Most of you do not watch SVU and it will be *extremely* difficult to explain this.

I*never* say SVU is histronic, I say it connects with the viewer on an emotional level, whereas CI connects with the viewer on an intellectual level. CI rarely tries to grab your emotions the way SVU does. And when CI *does* try to grab your emotions, they fail. CI does not, and never will have, the emotions or the heart that SVU does. SVU runs on emotion, and when CI tries to inject emotion into their shows, it's overkill.

I'm sure that does not make sense and most of you will vehemently disagree with me, LOL!!

Thus, building up to why I hated like this show, the main things that just did not sit right with me:

1) The histronics overkill in the last half hour. (This goes along with what I was saying SVU emotion vs. CI emotion.) I understand that CI was showing us how dirty the judge could be but, again, overkill. Too much at once.

2) Too damn long. Cut out the histronics, this easily would have been a one hour show.

3) Eames' "withdrawn letter". Three parts of extreme irritation to me:

A) To bring this up five seasons into the show is poor timing. Had this been brought up i n season one or two would make much more sense than *now*.

B) The wording of the letter must have been to appease the Goren haters. This description does not fit Goren on his worst day. Have mercy, I wouldn't even inflict this description on Logan because, as much as I despise Logan, even *he* wouldn't deserve such libel.

Beligerent? No, Obnoxious, yes. Erratic, bizzare? No. Twitchy, excitable? Yes.

C) Eames' "explanation" of her "acquisited taste" for Goren was lamer than Ashlee Simpson!

I was left wondering how long Eames had to deal with the "beligerant, bizarre, emotionally unstable" Goren before she "acquired her taste for him". How long into the partnership did she send the letter? Did they tell her, no honey, give him another six months? Why didn't they just give her a new partner? Why did she/they decide to lleave her with Goren? Did she have some sort of an Ephinany to see that "over time" Goren isn't the walking mental escapee she described in her letter, and instead to now see him to "have a deep understanding of human behavior and a fine police officer"?

UGH! Her explanation just did not fly with me. I expect this to come back and bite Eames on the ass, *again*, this time coming from Goren, or dare I say it?...Nicole!

(No grief to Eames for the writers' folly. Are they tring to make the viewers *dislike* Eames? They know how the "Goren lovers" are!)

4) Eames and Goren took a severe beating in court, and Goren took a double beating, first by his mother being harassed, second, the character assasination in court.

I find it highly peculiar that Logan nor Barek took a similiar beatdown. Both were thrown *very light* softballs. (And I knew that pool stick incident would come back to bite Logan on the ass! I wonder what will become of Sanchez' suit??) Anyone else find this contrast as peculiar as I do?

5) Connie was one damn weird choice to buddy up to the kid. Maybe because Connie was the only young kid they knew in prison? (Especially since Goren helped send him there?)

6) The twist with the mother as the killer just really sucked. That was just overkill.

Things I liked:

1) There is one redeeming quality in this show: humor. There were several lines that really cracked me up! And as much as I detest Logan, two of my biggest laughs came from him!

Eames saying "Oceans Two" and "They must love you in the produce section" was just plain funny. Also worthy of noting: Eames saying "Let's put them out of their misery" while working the computer and finding a the old Frank Sinatra spot.

Logan's expression when Barek knew the club and his response to the kid getting a hooker for his 16th birthday, "I only got a transistor radio" were even funnier than Eames. Barek, though, had the funniest line of the whole season so far! "They couldn't stop an asthma attack!" had myself, my husband, my sister, her husband, and my parents laughing until we cried.

2) The sets of detectives working together without butting heads, tantrums, tension, or ego trips. Instead, only a touch of competition between the teams was there. Each team did carefully watch the other team and were quick to note when they thought the other team was onto something.

3) I liked Barek in this one, and I expected to hate her. I have read a lot of critsism of her as being flat and dull (even TV Guide dissed her!) but, to me, she appeared cool, calm, and keen.

*Thinks of the fact that *I* guessed Sciorra as Logan's partner and has a fit of the giggles*

4) And it's very nice Logan didn't try to beat the crap out of someone this time. Logan actually was more useful and alert than Barek was in the investigation. He noticed several key things (the flyer of the missing Tiana, and the area where Tiana's body was). I can give credit where credit is due!

5) I did like how Goren channeled his anger into goading the judge into confession. I did *not* expect that. Bravo!

6) Carver's redirect of Eames was beautiful.

7) The skwering of the evil Nancy Grace. hehehehe!

8) Another thing that I liked was the photography for the introductions; they were nicely done. And the pat in the introductions where they showed all six walking together. My favorite photo is of the two women together.

To who asked: I think Goren mouthed "Thanks" before Eames said "Oceans' Two".

Look out "Wee Hours" poll, here I come!

[noc]

I appreciate the in-depth analysis by all.

I like SVU, although sometimes it seems to try too hard to be like NYPD Blue vs a Law & Order franchise. If Goren's "insanity" is treated anything like Elliot's "pulsing vein" delivery of emotional intensity, it may not fly too well with CI fans. Meloni's Elliot sometimes makes Noth's "young Logan" look like the Clint Eastwood of Law & Order acting.

[Christian]

As far as histionics go...I don't think there were any overly soapy scenes. I think all the scenes we got were of revelence and extremely believable. It didn't really feel that the info on the father was histrionics, it seemed like information needed to get the guy convicted. I saw no attempts at trying the be SVU. The scene with Eames in the coartroom was emotional for me. It didn't feel like a failed attempt because I did become emotionally involved in the scene and the scene with Goren's mother.

I don't think Eames expected to see that letter again. However, I am glad that it was shown last night because I think putting it in one of the earlier seasons would have been a bigger strain on their partnership. The show was still relatively new and now the letter can't be blown out of proportion. I'm guessing that Eames had trouble dealing with Goren in the beginning and he might have done something radical that just pushed her over the edge resulting in the request. Eames seems like a rational person and she probably came to her senses. Again, this is all speculation.

As for the Eames' statement being 'lamer than Ashlee Simpson!'...I have to disagree. I don't think it was lame, I think it was fitting and very Eames-like.

I do agree on the mother-twist. I don't think it was something that needed to be done. It was the only thing in the ep. that I thought was overkill.

The fact that Logan and Barek really weren't targeted by the judge was alittle iffy for me too. Eames and (especially) Goren got hammered by him. Barek really wasn't affected at all but atleast it set us up for the 'asthma attack' comment. And it also gave a little insight into the Barek/Logan partnership.

All things considered, this was (IMO) the best episode of the season. I greatly enjoyed having all four detectives work together and the dynamic was good. There were a lot of funny lines, emotional scenes and just...everything a good CI episode should have.