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Post by gorensmine on Sept 20, 2006 22:23:14 GMT -5
I shall appear out of lurk mode to add my 2 cents worth... I rather enjoyed the episode, I wasn't sure if I would or not, but I did. The person who summed it up as ' not my daddy's CI' was right on the money. It was different, very different, but not completely in a negative way. This may be what we need to get some of the SVU viewers to accept our show as an equal to theirs... ok, SVU is one of my shows too, but I'm a die hard CIer. Now I'm not up on cinematography or any of the 'technical' aspects of the show, but it definately did have a different feel, including the bull pen. It felt almost 'crowded' to me. I didn't like seeing Deakin's office under construction the way that it was, but then I'm still in denile that he's left! On that note, Ross... well, I'm not sure about him right now... I'm sure he will grow on me in time, after he has a chance to mellow out a bit. He needs to loose his preconceived notions about Goren and let the man do his job. Hopefully Eames will help there. I was always of the Goren as senior partner camp, but now that I've been officially corrected I can accept this and work it into my fanfiction. This episode was written to actually show Eames as more of a senior partner anyway. Alex... I enjoyed Alexandra MacGyver Eames very much! I laughed all the way through her escape! I even commented to the boyfriend that she should blow open the door like MacGyver, and then well... she did! I am glad that she managed to escape herself, as someone else mentioned 'Goren as the knight in shining armor' would have been really over the top and way too soapy. (That coming from a die hard Goren/Eames shipper!) The rest of the story with Declan and Jo, was very predictable. I too had it figured out quite quickly. I hope that this is not setting the stage for the year, but just a flashy start to a new day and time. I am looking forward to the Logan and ? epi next week. (sorry her name has escaped me at the moment) I had just come to terms with Logan and Barek and now it has changed again... but I guess that is what Fanfiction is for. I hope they explain Carolyn's departure, and not just leave it a mystery. Someone was concerned about the 1% on-line that talk about the show being the die hards... I just want to say that I think there are a lot of closet CI watchers. On most sites admitting to watching CI is taboo. I learned quickly to keep quiet on some sites. I hope opinions are accepted here, as this is really the first CI place that I have felt like I could contribute in without retribution. I'm still learning who the people are so for the most part I will stay in the silent portion. Anyway... this is my 2 cents worth. I look forward to reading more on the site.
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Post by LOCIfan on Sept 20, 2006 23:32:25 GMT -5
Observer & Catbird, I should clarify that by last scene, I didn't mean the scene with Jo, I meant really the last shot of Goren in Eames' hospital room.
I felt the final scene where Jo spills her guts was very well done. It was just that last shot of Goren in Eames' hospital room where I felt there was something wasted, because we'd seen him at her bedside before, and I'd have liked to see an expression, on either Goren or Eames' faces that I might be able to interpret in terms of how either/both of them were processing the entire thing. Just a closer look, maybe.
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Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
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Post by Leonore on Sept 21, 2006 0:01:30 GMT -5
I enjoyed the episode and I thought it did have some glances back to past seasons. Yes, I did think of One as I was watching; in the final scenes with Jo, I was thinking of the anguish of Goren where the daughter kills her father, Hal Linden (mea culpa Techguy!!) and he says, "I should have seen it coming...I know that anger."
I think the new captain's character almost needed to come in that way. After all, I'm sure reviews of "the Goren show" AND all the bad press he garnered thanks to NW AND all the times Deakins ran interference for them with the chief and the mayor would have made anyone taking over a bit cautious.
I did like the way everything seemed to go into speed mode: Goren's arm shooting out of the elevator, Goren exploding into the squad room, Ross peppering orders, Eames urgency to get out, ect. I liked the hurry-up intensity of that portion of the show.
I look forward to next week. I did laugh in the brief preview when Logan turned to his new partner and said he'd never partnered with anyone who had freckles.
BTW I thought Eames called the bird "Paulie" not "Polly", but maybe it was just my hearing!
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vdofan1
Silver Shield Investigator
Made ya look....
Posts: 178
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Post by vdofan1 on Sept 21, 2006 0:01:47 GMT -5
Observer & Catbird, I should clarify that by last scene, I didn't mean the scene with Jo, I meant really the last shot of Goren in Eames' hospital room. I felt the final scene where Jo spills her guts was very well done. It was just that last shot of Goren in Eames' hospital room where I felt there was something wasted, because we'd seen him at her bedside before, and I'd have liked to see an expression, on either Goren or Eames' faces that I might be able to interpret in terms of how either/both of them were processing the entire thing. Just a closer look, maybe. I like that we don't know yet, how they're processing the events. Because it is a process and not going to happen overnight. I think we'll see shades of it for awhile to come. At least I hope so. Plus, I think the previous scene after they've taken Jo out and we see Goren's reflection tells us alot. Also,I think the first scene with Goren and Eames in the hospital set the right tone for going forward and allowing further reveal during the season. Again, I hope so.
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Post by Techguy on Sept 21, 2006 1:31:10 GMT -5
in the final scenes with Jo, I was thinking of the anguish of Goren where the daughter kills her father(Hal Holbrook) and he says, "I should have seen it coming...I know that anger." Hal Linden played Julie's father Mr. Turner in the Season 2 episode "Suite Sorrow." It was different, very different, but not completely in a negative way. This may be what we need to get some of the SVU viewers to accept our show as an equal to theirs. Please excuse my boldness and blunt reply but, quite frankly, I don't much care whether or not SVU viewers accept CI as their equal, mostly because I don't much care for SVU. CI is not SVU (thankfully) and vice versa. CI should remain true to itself and its own unique identity within the L&O family, and not change its colors just to be accepted by fans of another show.
ETA: Cassie, I don't understand why you are concerned by the comments by the water cooler crowd where you work. Maybe some casual viewers disliked, even hated, the CI Season 6 premiere episode. But where you interpret the opinions of diehard fans as lack of objectivity, I see it as being more knowledgeable about the show and what behaviors would be appropriate for the characters.
Fans with an emotional vested interest in CI and Goren and Eames are going to see layers within the show that the casual viewer cannot. And as I said earlier, I tend to not react to the negative opinions of others because selfish as I am, I'm more concerned with whethor or not CI stays on track and continues to present weekly dramas that are consistent with what I already know about the show and characters. I'm not interested in winning the approval of fans of other shows, certainly not at the expense of CI sacrificing its integrity and uniqueness to become llke something else, something it is not.
I hope you continue to appreciate and enjoy CI for its own sake. I suggest you not allow the contrary opinions of co-workers who don't have the same history--or emotional investment in CI--to ruin it for you.
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Post by Techguy on Sept 21, 2006 2:17:44 GMT -5
I personally was not distracted by the kidnap visuals--I was too engrossed in the story, seeing how Eames would get out of her situation and how Goren would find out what I already knew or at least strongly suspected about the killer's identity.
And yes, CI staying true to itself is an absolute, non-negotiable necessary criteria for me if I'm going to set aside an hour of my time each week and remain a loyal viewer. How do I know if it is true to itself? I'll apply the same formula as a former US Supreme Court justice applied to pornography. Paraphrased, he said he couldn't define it but would know it when he saw it.
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Post by romulanavatra3 on Sept 21, 2006 3:56:00 GMT -5
sound like a good episode i wonder if the intro montage/credits thing is going to be the same for the logan episdoes as for the goren and eames episodes who knows may be they will add the da into intro later(after all there was bit of an issue wasnt there so maybe they ran a intro woth just the cast they at the time, makes sense). reagrds rom.
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Post by gorensmine on Sept 21, 2006 8:20:47 GMT -5
I too don't really care if they like it or not, the point was, we have been very low in the ratings, and if we can gather some viewership SVU or otherwise then we are all that much stronger... but I'm sorry that is the last I will mention here. It is so nice to be shot down with your 5th post!
Well, I guess I got my answer on the openness and friendliness of the people here. Thanks Techguy! Now I know that I need not to post opinions I should just lurk.
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Post by Summerfield on Sept 21, 2006 8:37:32 GMT -5
Back to the final scene: As soon as I saw that shot, I could hear Goren say, "Eames, this is what happened..."
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Post by sarahlee on Sept 21, 2006 8:55:42 GMT -5
I liked the final scene. Visually, it was wonderful. I like how it left so much unsaid, that makes it more fun for us--we so love to overthink and speculate. It's also consistant with the Goren/Eames relationship, brimming with nuance and undercurrants.
I have to back up cassie--I too have had a similar experience. Most LO fans I talk to (or have tried to) about CI say similar things. She's right, we so love and admire this show, we don't see it the same way non-fans do. We want new viewers, mostly to keep the ratings strong, and thus keep Our Show; but also, to add to our experience. New blood will just refresh us, and add to our lively discussions. The changes aren't comfortable, I whined with the rest of ya', but I can't be objective about CI, so I have to hope that the changes will work.
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Post by Patcat on Sept 21, 2006 9:03:04 GMT -5
I liked the final shot. Not too much, not too little just enough. And I think after the emotional battering Goren went through (and is likely giving himself for Eames' situation, his mentor's downfall, and his failure to recognize what was happening to Jo), he probably needed to be with Eames.
I'm out with my love of LOCI, and I get some minor grief about it. But I deal with it pretty easily. After all, it's not like I'm watching some reality show.
Patcat
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Post by madger on Sept 21, 2006 9:23:10 GMT -5
Well, I guess I got my answer on the openness and friendliness of the people here. Thanks Techguy! Now I know that I need not to post opinions I should just lurk. Why?, posting our different opinions is what we're all about, we like differing points of view, please no need to lurk, we want to hear from you!
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Post by LOCIfan on Sept 21, 2006 11:20:12 GMT -5
I too don't really care if they like it or not, the point was, we have been very low in the ratings, and if we can gather some viewership SVU or otherwise then we are all that much stronger... but I'm sorry that is the last I will mention here. It is so nice to be shot down with your 5th post! Well, I guess I got my answer on the openness and friendliness of the people here. Thanks Techguy! Now I know that I need not to post opinions I should just lurk. gorensmine, Please don't take the frank discussion that goes on here as antagonistic. That's just kind of the way we discuss things. We are always open when whe disagree with another's post, and that disagreement is not intended to detract from the initial poster, nor is it aimed personally at the poster. It's just a disagreement over views related to LO:CI. It's also something we NEED on this board. Please, please, please don't stop posting. I've been active on this board for quite a while, and while the discussions may sometimes get hot, Techguy is always a perfect gentleman, separating the poster's opinion from the poster. I do hope you'll continue to post. FWIW: I agree that it's important for CI to garner new viewers on the coattails of SVU. While I, personally, don't care whether or not SVU viewers like or don't like Goren and/or CI, I DO care that CI's ratings are high enough so that it'll get another season.
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Post by LOCIfan on Sept 21, 2006 11:43:59 GMT -5
Cannot disclose, but verifiable. Interesting, orsonb. Since you posted, I have heard, through verifiable sources that cannot be disclosed, that Balcer is an active consultant on the show. That the fact that Eames rescues herself was Balcer's idea, and the entire CI: Hard Evidence thing was Balcer's idea. According to your "inside" info: true or false?
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Post by DNA on Sept 21, 2006 12:00:53 GMT -5
gorensmine, Please don't take the frank discussion that goes on here as antagonistic. That's just kind of the way we discuss things. We are always open when whe disagree with another's post, and that disagreement is not intended to detract from the initial poster, nor is it aimed personally at the poster. It's just a disagreement over views related to LO:CI. It's also something we NEED on this board. Please, please, please don't stop posting. I've been active on this board for quite a while, and while the discussions may sometimes get hot, Techguy is always a perfect gentleman, separating the poster's opinion from the poster. Ditto. I very rarely join in the episode discussion's but I've really missed watching you all dissect each episode from your own unique perspectives
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