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Post by Techguy on Oct 13, 2006 23:24:37 GMT -5
desensitization to violence...There’s more I want to say about this, but I think I’ll save it for a thread in the General CI area. I posted a new poll in General CI Discussion where members can go at it in more depth.
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Post by SarahIvy on Oct 14, 2006 3:36:27 GMT -5
I’m completely confounded by the way everyone except sobergal95 seems to think that Wheeler did not wade back into the fight after calling for help. I mentioned this back on page one, but I'm not really in any position to really comment strongly because I didn't tape it for rewatching. While Wheeler didn't do a great job helping Logan out, I totally thought she was at least trying. And I definitely noticed her making multiple attempts to get back into things...I've just been withholding when it comes to strong opinion on the matter because I only saw it the once and my memory can be a bit hazy
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Post by Cassie on Oct 14, 2006 6:12:13 GMT -5
I am with SarahIvy, I was page 4, Wheeler did what she could, but I think this scene could have set the stage for some friction between the two detectives which would be neat
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Post by madger on Oct 14, 2006 20:19:24 GMT -5
The more I watch this epi, the more I like it. And yes, Wheeler does jump back into the fray after calling for back-up. I don't agree she should have used a short stick or any kind of weapon, since that would only provoke an escalation in violence, those guys were big enough if they started swinging stuff at each other there would have been real casualties.
But, even though I enjoy the L/W episodes, they should be called something else, they don't have any "Criminal Intent" in them, they're just a good cop show (most of the time).
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 14, 2006 20:39:30 GMT -5
I saw Wheeler trying to help her partner too, twice I think. (I also didn't tape for re-watching.) The fight looked vicious, especially at the end but I don't think it was meant to be a vicious fight, at least not to the point where weapons were to be used. This was a fight between brother's in arms, who, granted didn't like each other much. That's to say Logan and the big burly firefighter didn't like each other and the other firemen (and Wheeler) entered the fray to show cameraderie with their faction. This is re-inforced for me at the hearing when neither Logan nor Wheeler wanted to rat out the other guys. It was more of a boy's in the playground fight and, in the context of how the plot played out, it didn't actually have anything to do with the murder because at the time the burly fireman didn't know who did the crime.
It did look vicious esepcially at the end when it was six on one with Logan taking what looked like a furious kicking. This to me was a bit gratuitious since it warped the flavour of the scene which was to create a flashback moment for the murder itself. That the fight scene was the first one in the episode underlines that it had little but shock value to it. It was meant to get our attention and get us talking.
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Post by Techguy on Oct 14, 2006 20:53:21 GMT -5
With all due respect to everyone who disagrees, and admittedly I'm viewing Wheeler's behavior based on my background and experience in the military in wartime but...she didn't cut it. Logan ended up in the hospital, whereas Wheeler got no worse that a tiny scratch on her cheek, covered with a Band-Aid. If she was in my outfit, and we were partnered while on a house-to-house search, and I ended up going to the hospital while she only got a scratch, I'd be ticked off and she'd be bounced out of the service, no ifs ands or buts about it.
All comparison wounds aside, I still feel very strongly that Wheeler could have, and should have, taken a more active role to back up her partner. I think law enforcement and the military might be similar in this respect--you absolutely don't let your partner, someone who depends on you to watch their back, to take a physical beating like the one Logan got. Wheeler looked and acted terrified, which can be everyone's undoing at crunch time, when lives are at stake. This might sound harsh, but I'm calling it as I see it, and more importantly, how I would feel if I were in Logan's place. I feel she failed Logan, and failed his trust, which is an issue that I believe needs to be addressed if Logan is ever to have faith in her again.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 14, 2006 21:07:14 GMT -5
Interesting point, techguy. I thought she a black eye and scratches and I'm not going to argue whether she was a good fighter. She didn't seem to be. But I will say that I thought she backed him up smart if not physically. She called for backup. I mean even if she floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee, it was six against two and the two were not on their homeground. She called for back up at least twice. I'll say again that this fight was not meant to be a life/death struggle, not the way it was between Goren and last week's villian - that's for sure. this was more of a macho-man peacock puffing type of fight. So i think, all things consdered, she did ok. Everyone lived to fight another day. Heck by the end of the episode, Logan and the Mr. Brawny look-alike even almost kissed and made up. Almost.
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Post by Techguy on Oct 14, 2006 21:19:59 GMT -5
Point taken too Sirenna, which is why I prefaced in both my original post and my more recent one that I was viewing Wheeler's behavior through the lens of my personal military experience, and how I would react if I were in Logan's place.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 14, 2006 21:40:20 GMT -5
I LOVED the discrepency in the size of their files on the end of the conference room table!! There does seem to be a lot of humor tucked into the L/W episodes here and there. .. And I liked the little scence between Logan and Wheeler in the hospital room. .. it didn't seem to phase either of them that he was sitting around in his underwear. There is no way I see that scence being played out between Goren and Eames... ;0) Yes, that scene in the conference room was really one of the best this season for me. I really liked when they were waiting for their bosses to enter the room, Logan is so comically incredulous that Wheeler's never been to a hearing before as if she's too goody-goody to be caught for detention. I saw a look between them, before they gave an explanation for the fight a bit differently. When the Chief asked for an explanation and Logan started to start to explain but caught himself as if to say: "Heck, I'm going to be busted back to Staten Island no matter what I say so I'm just going zip it for once (age before wisdom, Logan?) When he looks at Wheeler, it's almost as if to suggest to the captain that she was the hothead so she should explain why they're in this mess to the chief. As for the underwear scene, I think that Goren and Eames would never be that familiar with each other. There's a cerebral distance that just never can be surmounted irregardless of how much they like and respect each other and how close they actually are. It was a very persipacious descriptive parallel that the writers' accurately caught.
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Post by sarahlee on Oct 15, 2006 16:00:06 GMT -5
The hospital scene, the fight, the hearing--there are so many differences now between the L/W epis and the G/E epis. We didn't see this last season. Barek eventually tried to be a Goren clone, and the L/B stories were just not a good fit, they seemed to be written for Goren and Eames. Now the writers are writing differently for each team. It seems obvious, but there would/should be a different ending if Goren & Eames were in that fire station. Just like last week--how would Mikey have handled the suicidal stepfather? This is interesting, and whatever problems I have with the plot holes and show style, my inner CI fan is reassured.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 22, 2006 8:39:41 GMT -5
You know what I would like to see. The same crime, 2 different episodes solved by the two different detective teams. Would they follow the same course of action and would they get the same results? I believe in most cases they would, but not all
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 22, 2006 12:49:19 GMT -5
With all due respect to everyone who disagrees, and admittedly I'm viewing Wheeler's behavior based on my background and experience in the military in wartime but...she didn't cut it. Wheeler fights like a girl, not like a trained cop for hand-to-hand combat. Then again, she was trying to fight a couple dozen men all at once, too...
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Post by filmnoir5 on Oct 22, 2006 14:46:56 GMT -5
You know what I would like to see. The same crime, 2 different episodes solved by the two different detective teams. Would they follow the same course of action and would they get the same results? I believe in most cases they would, but not all Interesting idea! This would be a good one for a movie featuring both teams or two episodes that deal with the same perpetrator that would air as a two part with the same story concluding with the other team working on the case.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 22, 2006 16:40:17 GMT -5
I finally saw this episode last night on USA. I certainly don't have Techguy's perspective on this situation, so I may be missing a lot. But I thought the audience didn't get to see enough of exactly what Wheeler was doing during the fight with the firemen to judge her actions. And Logan seems ok with whatever she did.
I liked the interaction between Logan and Wheeler and Ross. I thought this was a potentially interesting story. And then it just ended. Certainly much better than TRU LOVE, showing promise, but not a great effort.
Patcat
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Post by sarahlee on Oct 24, 2006 11:05:17 GMT -5
You know what I would like to see. The same crime, 2 different episodes solved by the two different detective teams. Would they follow the same course of action and would they get the same results? I believe in most cases they would, but not all What an idea! Now that sounds like an interesting fanfic premise...
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