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Post by Techguy on Nov 4, 2006 1:09:50 GMT -5
But can someone please explain the whole Charlie/Logan eye contact in the rear vision mirror scene. That went totally past me. What the heck did it all mean? Were these two men sizing each other up? Logan gauging how best to tackle Charlie for his favour? Charlie wondering what was in store for him? It seemed so…unnecessary. Since no words were exchanged between Logan and Charlie, there's no way to say with absolute certainty.
However, my take goes back to what you asked earlier about why Charlie agreed to pose as gay. And to do that, we have to re-visit an even earlier scene in the MCS squad room, when Ross tells Logan and Wheeler they have to come up with something better than the matching ties and other evidence to get Brendan to confess. Before he and Wheeler leave, Logan says, "I think I just remembered who threw the first punch."
This remark tells me he had already come up with the idea to use some "friendly persuasion" to convince Charlie to pretend to be gay. I think the eye contact between them in the rear view mirror suggests Logan had already spelled out for Charlie what it would mean for his career and his pension if he were charged and convicted of assaulting a cop/detective. The wordless eye contact conveys the idea that Logan is giving Charlie some time to think about the consequences if Logan presses charges. By the time they arrive back at the squad room, Logan has Charlie sufficiently primed to agree to Logan's request for a "favor."
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Post by Techguy on Nov 4, 2006 23:38:27 GMT -5
Penn, here's my take on a few of your other questions.
I think "cop" is an all-purpose word for police officer and it's quicker and easier to say. My understanding is uniformed "cops" are called patrolmen, and then after so many years on the force and passing an exam, can get promoted to detective. But they are all "cops."
As for the horizontal vs. vertical holding and aiming a gun, I can only give you my personal experience from the military and from my civilian use of firearms as a member of a gun club. Everyone I know, myself included, aims a gun vertically because it gives more control and accuracy when we aim. Aiming vertically also allows you to grasp the wrist of the gun-holding hand for support. As I recall from the episode "To the Bone" when Logan accididentally shoots and kills an off-duty police officer, he's aiming vertically. Why he chooses the horizontal aim during the interrogation is anyone's guess. I know the horizontal move is a gangster type pose, so maybe that was Logan's point to the street kid Darnell--he was showing that he (Logan) can be just as bad @$$ as the "gangstas."
I haven't really noticed Wheeler's mouth down-turns at Logan. If she's doing this, I don't think it's because she's resigned to being the brunt of his snarks. I think she realizes Logan is a smart mouth, and the mouth thing is her way of saying "here we go again" the way someone else might roll their eyes at a bad joke.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Nov 5, 2006 13:55:02 GMT -5
How and why did the fight start in the first place? I think you agreed we're not really sure or told, except maybe Logan, being Logan, fired off Charlie 'cos that's just the way he is. At first glance, it looks like Logan started the altercation. But if you think about it, Charlie yelled "Screw you" and we did not get to see why he got so agitated. I don't think Logan was agitated or trying to make Charlie mad, given his quick quip. Usually, if Logan is trying to make someone mad, he gets right in their face and yells, too. The way the scene was cut, it makes Logan appear to have "started it" but to me, it looks like Charlie did. Weird, because I'm defnding Logan and I don't like him but I still don't think it was fair to make it look like Logan started it. Had we been given just a few more seconds of lines, I think we would know for certain who really started it. I don't thinhk there is any way to tell otherwise.
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Post by mikeyrocks on Nov 5, 2006 16:41:47 GMT -5
Charlie was the first to Shove - twice actually - granted Logan pushed him back. But I think many people would have.
Charlie was also the first to throw a punch - again it probably wasn't the smartest move on Logan's part to be mouthy with such a HOTHEAD - BUT - Hey you know Mikey LOL!!
So there is no doubt in my mind that Charlie was in fact totally responsible for starting the fight.
What I really want to know - is why did the firemen think that it takes 5 or 6 of them to beat one guy up? Mob mentality I suppose. It really disturbed me how they all sort of swarmed Logan. Especially as these guys are trained to save lives and all!!
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Post by Patcat on Nov 6, 2006 10:05:27 GMT -5
My take on this comes from reading some books and articles about firemen, particularly the NYFD, so take it with that warning. My understanding is that firemen, especially the NYFD, have an extremely strong sense of brotherhood. On the positive side, this results in a necessary and very strong sense of taking care of each other. On the negative side, it results in a sense of entitlement and resentment of anyone outside their ranks. It's one reason why minorities and women have had a hard time getting in and advancing in the NYFD and other departments. There's also an extreme rivalry between the NYFD and the NYPD, one that has certainly cost a great deal of money and probably more than a few lives. Most of the guys who went after Logan and Wheeler probably had no idea who started the fight or why, and probably didn't care. All they likely saw was a cop going after a fellow firefighter.
There's a wonderful writer, Dennis Smith, I think, who's written movingly about his life as a New York City fireman, and one of the things that comes through his books is that the men who worked with were capable of both the most brutal and thoughtless of acts and words and the bravest and kindest as well.
Patcat
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Post by Techguy on Nov 6, 2006 13:52:41 GMT -5
This episode started out with the flashback sequence--the firefighters were lined up like the defensive line of a football team, daring anyone to cross it. The dialogue was also intimidating--"This is our house and you're not welcome"--or something similar. The atmosphere was already highly charged with negative vibes even before Logan opened his mouth.
One other point I'll make about the NYPD vs. FDNY. I was watching a hockey game from NY this weekend, and the announcers started talking about the intense rivalry between the police and firefighter hockey teams for their annual grudge match. The discussion included an anecdote about the long time captain of the firefighter team, and how his policeman son TURNED TRAITOR when he joined the FDNY hockey team! Apparently these NYPD vs. FDNY hockey games get a bit violent and bloody, the rivalry is so intense. No wonder they only play each other once a year.
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Post by sobergal95 on Nov 6, 2006 17:48:28 GMT -5
Our buddy Charlie the fireman is another repeat offender: hes a uniformed police officer that escorts Eames and Goren to the murder victim in the beginning of "Ill-Bred" season 3. Be sure to take notes: it will be on the final exam.
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Post by Patcat on Nov 7, 2006 10:53:59 GMT -5
Of course, the FOX network series RESCUE ME deals with the foibles of NYFD members and included one of those bloody hockey games Techguy mentions in one episode. RESCUE ME was a great show at the start, but I haven't watched it since it turned, IMHO, really bizarre and misogynistic.
Patcat
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Post by janetcatbird on Jan 16, 2007 22:49:13 GMT -5
Way late, but I finally saw the episode on the NBC repeat. A lot of stuff has been hashed out already, but my random musings: - The violence, specifically the fight, perhaps went on a bit too long. But brawls get ugly, and in this case I think that, while bordering on melodramatic and manipulative dramatic tension, it's not completely unrealistic.
- Wheeler was not completely worthless and made a few efforts to help--I saw her capsize a firefighter by grabbing his legs and forcing him to let go of her arms. However, it wasn't enough. And judging by that weak and silly nudge to stop the running gang boy, she probably wouldn't have been much help anyways--not caught off guard and at a disadvantage.
When Logan told her he wasn't in the mood for an apology at the hospital part of that may have been that he wasn't completely furious and never able to forgive her. But he was also hurt, sore, and pissed--the last thing he wanted was any kind of touchy-feely. Shut up and do the job, if need be we'll talk later.
- Someone upthread mentioned Ross's "Gay Rage" comments, but I didn't take that as Ross himself being ugly. By the eye rolls, hand quotes, and sigh in his voice I got the impression that he was expositioning/explaining to Wheeler. It' ain't pretty, but that's how it was. "I don't ever want to hear this from either of you"--while he sounds more like a mother with teenagers than a captain, we get his point.
- A few word associations with the title--thanks, by the way, for the info on Maltese Cross as firefighter's shield. Anything to do with the phrase "cross to bear" as well? Taking up a heavy burden, shouldering it alone, with the additional connotation of helping other people? The victim staying in the closet trying to deny himself? The wife and Charlie sucking it up to do right at the end?
Also, I think most people would, upon hearing the title, think of The Maltese Falcon, that great noir film. Also full of shady identities, codes of honor involving your relationships with a partner, and a good bit of homoerotic subtext as well. Just a thought on my end.
--Catbird
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meggyd
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 112
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Post by meggyd on Jan 17, 2007 10:32:37 GMT -5
This is the first episode I've seen of series six, as I'm currently in America. I just wanted to add a few thoughts on the episode as all the changes are still shiny and new to the Australians. Kudos to whoever first described Wheeler as Peter Pan, the description is spot on - a great description. She seems to be a really fascinating character and it will be interesting to see how they develop her. I think she did all she could in the initial fight scene, she called for help and got right back in there, but was just too frail to make much of an impact. Though I do agree with those who say that Eames, physically small as she is, would have been more involved and would have done a lot more damage.
It was strange to see the key characters, and not the crime before the opening credits. Not unwelcome, but just very different from the established CI formula. I kept wondering whether I'd missed the start of the opening sequence. And I too miss the doink-doinks, it's really strange watching the show without them, it doesn't seem like Law and Order.
I like the character of the new Captain. I think it has opened things up a lot for new discussion and interaction in the Squad Room - Deakin was such a known quantity and Ross seems a bit more ready to challenge his detectives and shake things up. I wish I'd been able to catch a Goren and Eames episode to see them interact.
Overall, an interesting episode. I wish I could see more episodes but I'll be back in Australia and at the mercy of Channel 10 before the next one airs. I'm a teacher, and on school camp in California, and they obstinately refused to arrange their schedule around my CI viewing last week (don't they know what's really important?) so I couldn't catch the episode last week. Who knows when Channel 10 will show the new episodes - mid-year? Anyway, I was glad to get a better idea of what everyone had been discussing and add my voice to the mix.
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Post by Metella on Jan 18, 2007 7:55:28 GMT -5
I think your reasoning for Ross having the possibility to "shake things up" is right on .... he doesn't have to do it - but a slight tension is there with out soap-type drama to add something to the scenes that he is in.
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doctorj
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 92
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Post by doctorj on Jan 18, 2007 20:19:13 GMT -5
it's interesting to think of this episode viz. "world's fair." both feature logan and wheeler and both focus on social issues (racism, homophobia). is this a new pattern, i wonder? are the episodes featuring goren/eames going to be dedicated to family issues (mothers and brothers), and those featuring logan/wheeler to the issues of the day?
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 18, 2007 20:38:10 GMT -5
LOL meggyd! Rescheduling wouldn't help though. There are at least six hours of L&O re-runs on any given day of the week. The only way to work it would be to quit your job and not take any pee breaks during the day.
I hope they are not going to break up the Logan/Wheeler (L/W), Goren/Eames epis that way, DrJ; too formulaic and bordering on preachy. The whole point of detective fiction for me is the unfurling of surprise.
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Post by Techguy on Jan 18, 2007 20:49:25 GMT -5
Aha, meggyd, that's the spirit! Priorities are priorities, which is why I turned down overtime on night shift the night of the CI Season 6 premiere!
And I also hope there isn't a formulaic or thematic breakdown between the Goren/Eames episodes and the Logan/Wheeler episodes. Although I do admit that overall, I have enjoyed the L/W episodes a lot more than the G/E because of the absence of family melodramatic angst and other annoyances. Now I'm wondering what the next 10 S6 episodes have in store for us?
Well, I know we're going to get to see Goren's brother, and two more episodes with Goren's Mom, so there you go. Is it possible to anticipate an episode with equal and vascillating periods of curiosity and dread? That's how it is for me lately.
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Post by ragincajun on Jan 22, 2007 11:55:21 GMT -5
This is by far my favorite Logan/Wheeler episode. Love the knock down at the fire house, but think Wheeler should have put up more of a fight, at least thru a punch. Looked up code 1013 , since they seem so upset that wheeler called one,
"Officer needs assistance." When this call goes out, the police of the city stop. There ensues a large rush to a hospital to give blood, and a sprawling, frantic search for the person or persons who committed the assaults or killing of a cop in the city.
So guess all the cops left the city unattended to rush to the firehouse and that is why they were upset. Will have to rewatch it, but when Ross walks in with the three other men, He introduces the Man in the suit as the Police Commisioner, The second man in uniform as the Chief of detectives, but I don't remember him introducting the third man anyone remember.
Also loved how small wheeler's file was and how thick Logans was.
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