elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
Posts: 242
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Post by elizabethbay on Nov 3, 2006 10:51:20 GMT -5
I don't think we'd find Goren at the bottom of a sherry bottle--more like whiskey. I sorta thought he might be a connoisseur of the grape, maybe of fizz, too. If he goes south, at least I hope it's with a case of Chateau Margaux or Krug. Absolutely so. Extremely realistic. Substance abuse of all sorts is par for the course in that line of work. Also in journalism. Perhaps his occasionally-seen pal from the New York Ledger keeps him company. Or doing lines of coke at the Aztec Club with his newest second-best friend, Lilly Carlyle. And then trying to dance. I think I'll just go now and put my head in a bucket.
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elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
Posts: 242
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Post by elizabethbay on Nov 3, 2006 10:57:14 GMT -5
That is the most chilling observation I've ever read on this board. Soooo...Is Ross, then, being 'groomed' by the writers to fill the vacuum left by a departing Goren?
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Nov 3, 2006 13:26:29 GMT -5
It's funny... I keep going back and forth in my mind about Goren being medicated (self- or otherwise). I was thinking about this last night when I was watching "Semi-Detached" and he was going through the whole Paroxetine regimen. I think it could be argued either way that at some point Goren has had a course of anti-depressents. But for me, if anything, he seems rather too "twitchy" of late, so that I almost think that he's NOT medicating himself pharmaceutically. He may of course be self-medicating with some libations when he's not running between a case and his mom's hospice/treatment center/Carmel Ridge/wherever she is now.
So I don't really know what to think, but its certainly one more thing to watch for. And we LOVE to watch for the little things!!
effie
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Post by Metella on Nov 3, 2006 13:57:47 GMT -5
Now that could be an interesting way to keep things going .... have the CAPTAIN be the profiler and then have detectives under him doing the leg work .... I could go for that.
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Post by Patcat on Nov 3, 2006 14:51:16 GMT -5
H-m-m. I don't see Ross taking any space from Goren, no do I see Goren giving any up. I thought one of the reasons Goren was arguing against charging Fife was because Goren had learned enough about Fife during the plane ride to cause Goren to be extremely suspicious about Fife's guilt. I thought Ross's problem was that Goren's argument was based on his view of Fife's psychology and Ross wanted something more tangible, which Eames and Goren quickly supplied.
Patcat
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Nov 3, 2006 17:08:20 GMT -5
I thought one of the reasons Goren was arguing against charging Fife was because Goren had learned enough about Fife during the plane ride to cause Goren to be extremely suspicious about Fife's guilt. I thought Ross's problem was that Goren's argument was based on his view of Fife's psychology and Ross wanted something more tangible, which Eames and Goren quickly supplied. The basis of the argument is unclear for me. If your assumption is correct, than why Goren asked Ross if he wanted him to draw a confession out of Fife? Didn't Fife already confess to the crime? Also, if Goren had done his profiling on the plane (which we didn't see, so one can assume he did or didn't do it) and became suspicious about Fife's guilt, his experience with Carver (no his experience period) should have made him seek tangible proof of what he was suspecting. Watching Goren report to Ross about this matter, annoys me as much as Goren and Eames blindly going, on Ross' advice, to Raines' office and to falsely arraign the unstable policeman in Siren Call and nearly getting killed twice. I expect more anticipation from Goren, because of his accute understanding of human behaviours. Goren is lagging behind and appears to be subjected to events as before he appears to have an effect on events. I noticed a shift in attitude.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Nov 3, 2006 20:42:31 GMT -5
Goren not being the smartest guy in the room doesn't pose a problem for me. It only poses a problem for me because Goren's being the smartest guy in the room was what CI Ci, IMO anyway. If they strip Goren of his essence, what will set CI apart from the other dozen cop shows on tv? This, to me, is more an act of hostility rather than a battle of wits. There isn't any balance when it comes to Ross because he's too busy talking and not listening. He's too busy steamrolling anyone in his path. Goren not being the smartest guy in the room doesn't pose a problem for me. Yes, but unlike you I think that Ross' annoyance was entirely justified. Not only Goren didn't maximize his time with Fife on the plane to get a good profile, he was now asking Ross a question a detective of his calibre shouldn't have had to ask. How to conduct an interrogation is a basic procedural act and Goren is not the type of character to bend over backwards on the procedural stuff. He goes for it when he senses something is not right, and Fife was the epitome of "not in his right mind". Yet, this fact completely had gone over Goren's head who looked like he didn't have clue of what was going on.[/quote] Goren wasn't asking Ross how to conduct the interview, Ross was telling him how he did everything wrong. Goren tried to explain to Ross why he had done what he done but Ross just ignored him, got loud, and talked over Goren. Goren had much more reason to be annoyed, especially when Ross blatantly disrespects him. If Ross thinks Goren is so impotent in interrogation, why doesn't he do it himself instead? Goren's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Goren's attitude, or lack thereof, is the problem here. Ross is taking so much space now, because the space is there for the taking. Ross instigated the argument and it became heated because he became disrespectful and talked over Goren. Ross is the one who needs an attitude adjustment. It's easy to take over space when you're ingoring people and steamrolling them. The basis of the argument is unclear for me. If your assumption is correct, than why Goren asked Ross if he wanted him to draw a confession out of Fife? Didn't Fife already confess to the crime? I agree with Patcat's assesment of the argument, Goren didn't have anything tangible but his gut in suspecting Fife did not kill Amberleigh. Fife was confessing but Goren wasn't buying it. Ross didn't want to hear of it but Eames later convinced Ross to allow them to investigate more. Ross was quite underwhelmed when Goren proved Fife did not kill AmberLeigh. It's almost the same annoyed reaction Ross had when Goren figured out Jo was the killer, not Gage.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Nov 3, 2006 20:44:40 GMT -5
That is the most chilling observation I've ever read on this board. Soooo...Is Ross, then, being 'groomed' by the writers to fill the vacuum left by a departing Goren? I'd rather see Logan and Eames partner up if D'Onofrio leaves. And yes, I said Logan and Eames.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Nov 3, 2006 20:52:15 GMT -5
NicoleMarie
I think in light of my way of interpreting this scene, Patcat's way and your way, your Anais Nin quote is taking its full meaning.
I don't see Ross as an hostile character and I feel Goren is regressing as a brilliant, deductive character this season, so it's only normal that I would interpret the scene as being Goren's fault. Yet, I still think Goren is dragging not only his ass but also his brain this season.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Nov 3, 2006 21:12:40 GMT -5
NicoleMarie I think in light of my way of interpreting this scene, Patcat's way and your way, your Anais Nin quote is taking its full meaning. I don't see Ross as an hostile character and I feel Goren is regressing as a brilliant, deductive character this season, so it's only normal that I would interpret the scene as being Goren's fault. Aren't opposing views fun? LOL!! Yet, I still think Goren is dragging not only his ass but also his brain this season. That's what Ross wants. I don't think Goren is regressing, I think he is being stifled. By Ross.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Nov 3, 2006 21:21:10 GMT -5
That's what Ross wants. I don't think Goren is regressing, I think he is being stifled. By Ross. My point exactly...since when Goren lets anybody stifle him. He never used to blink even when a suspect would throw awful sh!t (can I write that word?) at him. Now Goren is letting Ross' more assertive attitude take over his basic detective skills. I don't buy that!
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Post by musicwench on Nov 3, 2006 21:31:29 GMT -5
That is the most chilling observation I've ever read on this board. Soooo...Is Ross, then, being 'groomed' by the writers to fill the vacuum left by a departing Goren? I'd rather see Logan and Eames partner up if D'Onofrio leaves. And yes, I said Logan and Eames. Logan and Eames being partnered would be the only thing they could do to keep me watching if D'Onofrio leaves. I remember noting to my husband how all the other characters on the show during the first season seemed incidental to Goren. It's the only L&O show we watch any more just because of D'Onofrio's character and the marvelous job he does portraying him.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Nov 3, 2006 21:44:52 GMT -5
That's what Ross wants. I don't think Goren is regressing, I think he is being stifled. By Ross. My point exactly...since when Goren lets anybody stifle him. He never used to blink even when a suspect would throw awful sh!t (can I write that word?) at him. Now Goren is letting Ross' more assertive attitude take over his basic detective skills. I don't buy that! It doesn't make sense to me and I don't buy it, either. But why is he being stifled, especially by Ross? Is it the writing or is it the actor?
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Post by Cassie on Nov 3, 2006 22:38:11 GMT -5
Cassie, I didn’t get the impression Eames endorsed the emotional female argument. I think she was letting us know quite how disastrously the investigation went. Not just bad, Textbook bad. Hi Leticia, I would agree with you, when Eames and Goren where in Ross office and she said: ".......using her as an example in the class that women are too emotional to be cops...she left the force in disgrace." Its when Eames comes out of the basement of AmberLeigh's with Goren and the ex-Rookie cop...they say goodnight to her.... and Goren and Eames start to discuss the case . Eames shakes her head in disgust, and says "She was a female rookie wanting to prove herself, ending up making it harder on the rest of us" Goren says...."its another Rookie cops mistake" I see Eames as a harden woman here, one who resents it when another woman falls, cause its makes her look bad. She wants to be the perfect female officer. Remember "Baggage" Jennie? Eames had Jennie's back. She understood what Jennie was up against working in a man's world. I see a different Eames. There is a fine line between tough and hard..... and I am beginning to think Eames needs a somebunny to soften her up....more then Goren needs a woman Ross seems to give Goren a much harder time than the other detectives. It just makes me wonder why? me too At the elevators, Ross jumped on Goren in public. I see that as a power trip to show all who where around that he was the top dog. Goren lagging behind while they are walking down the hallway with the new DA. I see Goren being pushed out of the picture, and Goren knows it, he's playing with this tie clip and with the soda can..... Ross was deliberately rude to Goren. While Goren was speaking in mid-sentence Ross opened the soda and Ross cut off Goren's sentence. The look on Goren's face was "your an ass" I see the stage being set up for a blow out between the two of them. Ross is pushing Goren's buttons.... I have had many bosses in my life (especially at the company where I am now....) and my philosophy is..... "I will follow a leader....but I will never, ever submit to a dictator" And Ross is behaving like a Dictator to Goren. Ross has issues.....he's out to prove himself to Goren. Why? Time will tell.....and it makes for a great storyline ;D Deakins led his detectives..... and Ross dosen't have to be perfect like Deakins. I am glad they didn't try cloning the captian. As for the Coke, being used as an advertisment. I remember awhile back reading an article about DHL trucking. found it.... just inserting a few sentences for ya all to read.... blogs.mediapost.com/mdn_commentary/?p=650DHL had high hopes for a $150 million ad campaign it launched in mid-2004. The delivery service wanted to raise awareness for its new refashioned brand ID, while laying the groundwork for a significant challenge to U.S. market leaders UPS and FedEx. Speaking of shooting, the campaign has also involved murder. DHL employed brand integration in the March 19 episode of NBC’s “Law & Order: Criminal Intent” (evaluated and ranked via research firm iTVX as one of the five most effective product placements last week). At the start of the episode, a DHL “do-how” deliveryman arrives at a home–package in tow–where detectives are investigating a female resident’s murder. The DHL colors and logo are visible on the deliveryman’s jacket and his truck, which is shown parked out front and then pulling away. The cameras also follow the package–which makes it to the right address, although addressed to the wrong person–into the hands of Detective Mike Logan (played by Chris Noth).
“Can-do” or “do-how” aside, the product placement works because DHL shows up where a viewer would expect UPS. (Fortunately for DHL, the murder scene isn’t overly gory and, in “Law & Order” fashion, the focus quickly shifts to the investigation.) So I feel that Coke is strageccally placing their soda cans all around the Major Case Squad
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Post by NicoleMarie on Nov 3, 2006 22:59:13 GMT -5
Don't forget the Ford vehichles as advertisment
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