|
|
Post by Marie on Jan 30, 2005 11:51:45 GMT -5
As a new member to the Forum, I've been trying to figure out exactly how fans feel in general, about the direction they've taken Goren's character this season - as some hate it, some think it's fascinating, others have mixed emotions or can't decide; for wondering where it's all headed. Consequently making it hard to measure just how much of split there is, on the Forum.
So I thought I'd conduct a Poll in order to see what the numbers are; and thus gauge how successful - or unsuccessful Rene Balcer's decision has been, to take Det. Goren in a new, darker direction this year.
The question is: Do you like where they've taken Goren's character this season?
|
|
|
|
Post by Criminal Mastermind on Jan 30, 2005 19:08:06 GMT -5
I'm also very interested in what everyone thinks about this, so I'm going to sticky this topic for a while. I hope that will give everyone a chance to see it and respond  |
|
|
|
Post by Sirenna on Jan 30, 2005 20:35:55 GMT -5
It's not working for me. It's fascinating to get a glimpse into his batcave, sure, but I don't want to dwell there nor have him dwell there either. He's supposed to be brilliant which doesn't preclude his being emotionally stunted but then again he's also supposed to represent the anti-villian: "there but for the chioices we make could go I" type of thing. Also CI is different from SUV and mothership because it's so much more a who-dunnit in the literary sense than an exploration into the justice system even though the issues are so relevant. I like that he uses his brain a la columbo and catches the guy at the end. just my 0.5 cents |
|
|
|
Post by michael on Jan 30, 2005 22:09:42 GMT -5
I agree that it is the "a la Columbo" that keeps me interested. We never met "Mrs. Columbo", despite all the references to her. It was just a running joke and did not affect the crime-solving process. I don't mind a bit of moodiness for Goren (we all have our bad times), but let him do what he's good at--get into the minds of the criminals and bring them in.
|
|
MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
|
Post by MelTex on Jan 31, 2005 14:18:27 GMT -5
I enjoy tid-bits of personal info, but not so much it takes away from the essence of the show. Work it in smoothly, but don't bludgon me with it.
There are times in this season when I really missed the old Goren, becuae the moody-gloomy Goren was stifling. But, the little allutions and one-liners that made me go "Okay, why'd they leave us with that little thought correlating to Goren?" I like those.
I definitely do not want to see Goren self-destruct, but as VDO said, "Going darker is about the only way to go right now with Goren." And thats ok for me.
No self-destructions though. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Techguy on Jan 31, 2005 15:01:06 GMT -5
This is not an either/or, all-or-nothing issue for me.
As some other posters and I have already stated, we prefer suggestions and hints of Det. Goren's background to pique our interest and raise more questions without necessarily expecting answers to each and every one.
What I don't like is the vascillating between an overly upbeat and playful Goren and a moody and depressed Goren because it is unsettling and makes him come across as unstable. I also don't like dwelling on his past emotional traumas so much that they become the gorilla in the story and take over the entire episode.
|
|
|
|
Post by romulanavatra3 on Jan 31, 2005 20:41:24 GMT -5
i like a mixture of the two, i enjoyed the old goren but the new is goren is also good. i just think that if they find the right balance then it will be good. i thought goren went a bit off the rocker during the second half of season three( not vincent just goren). i cant wait to see season four so i will reserve judgement on those epsidoes for now. reagrds rom.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marie on Feb 1, 2005 6:26:16 GMT -5
....definitely do not want to see Goren self-destruct, but as VDO said, "Going darker is about the only way to go right now with Goren." And thats ok for me. No self-destructions though. ;D KA-BOOM! Yeah, I hear ya! Chuckle! I've taken it on faith - and continue to do so - that they weren't actually planning to have him implode at some point. LOL! However that said, it doesn't prevent my imagination from "picturing" the end result of getting moody Goren each week for a full 23 episodes! GASP! LOL! And it's that mental image I didn't want to see realized on the screen. As long as it doesn't appear, anything else they give me, I'm fine with it. As speaking just for myself, I like the mix of dark & light. It's my personal cup of tea; smile. However that kind of mix creates the potential for a disjointed and ergo uneven season; one lacking continuity in the wake of inconsistant episodes. Happy/sad/happy/sad/happy...etc. Which can drive someone NUTS if you hate that sort of flip-flopping! And to be sure, some fans do! People watch a show for a variety of reasons. If you got hooked on LOCI because you liked "this" about it, and now they're doing "that".... well, that sucks, eh? So I do empathize! I'd voted that I liked his batcave. For I do like it. But only in combination with the belief that Goren wasn't going to STAY in the batcave. I have missed seeing the old Bobby at times, but the pleasure of seeing "moody" Goren off-set that. That would and will change however, if and when the novelty of it wears off, for me. So far, I continue to be fascinated by him. Question now for ya, MelTex! You wrote: "....but as VDO said, "Going darker is about the only way to go right now with Goren." Do you remember where you saw that? I'm curious as I'd like to read anything additional he might have offered up, so as so determine the exact context of his meaning. A) D'Onofrio feels that going darker is the logical direction for the character - for now - because it's what we should be seeing? ie: it's temporary B) D'Onofrio feels they've basically exhausted everything they can reveal using up-beat Bobby, so it's left them with no other option BUT to write him darker from now on? ie: he's always going to have these dark moments of pathology - though not exclusively so, for the remainder of the series' run. For I can take his meaning either way. So I'm just wondering: do they intend to give us more episodes like "Semi-Detached" and "Want" at some point. Or not..? |
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Feb 1, 2005 10:20:04 GMT -5
I can go either way on this subject, but I do like the episodes that deal with Goren's background and his psyche. I liked both SEMI-DETACHED and WANT a great deal, for their demonstations of the costs of these types of crimes and criminals on the individuals investigating them. And I think these episodes can also show the great teamwork between Goren and Eames. They're also a splendid showcase for D'Onofrio.
But I certainly like the other episodes where the emphasis is on the crime, criminals, and the investigation. And it's certainly fun to watch Goren mess with the criminals, a la the toy store in COLLECTIVE.
But I think the great mystery at the heart of LOCI is Robert Goren.
I see the link between Goren and Columbo, but I think Goren owes much more to Holmes, Maigret, and other literary detectives than he does to Columbo. Is there any record of Rene Balcer mentioning Columbo as an influence?
Patcat
|
|
|
|
Post by Marie on Feb 1, 2005 14:11:18 GMT -5
But I think the great mystery at the heart of LOCI is Robert Goren. I LOVE THAT. I love the way you've phrased it, Patcat! Maybe it'll fit on a coffee mug...? But I digress. LOL! I've heard Goren's name intertwined so often with Columbo's that I'd only answer "yes" because I don't remember NOT hearing it, you know? Chuckle; I'm 78.5% sure he has. Ok, maybe I'll go out on a limb here at up that to 79% sure. After a few drinks.. 80%. Chuckle! |
|
|
|
Post by velocity on Feb 1, 2005 19:04:24 GMT -5
I am also one for the mix. Goren's antics the first 2 years were fascinating and made the show for me. Vincent was brilliant, balancing between the bumbling baitor and the steely, investigator. But I wanted more. The character promised of a deeper, driven Goren that never surfaced. It stirred my appetite, and always left me hungry. So now Vincent has darkened Goren and we are looking deeper but the brilliant trickery faded when we entered the bat cave. Why should that have to happen? Why can't we get the main course and the dessert too? Goren is multifaceted character and I guess I believe the brilliant trickster should not fade when his personal life takes hold. Just my take on it.
|
|
MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
|
Post by MelTex on Feb 2, 2005 12:05:13 GMT -5
Question now for ya, MelTex! You wrote: "....but as VDO said, "Going darker is about the only way to go right now with Goren." Do you remember where you saw that? I'm curious as I'd like to read anything additional he might have offered up, so as so determine the exact context of his meaning. Oh dude! Sorry I didn't site my source there for you guys! I don't know if it was an old interview that an Aussie paper just pinted , or what. I read that interview on the site www.thereelvincentdonofrio.comits under their Reel Blog link on the site, it takes you to updated info on VDO and CI and what he's been doing in general. Its an article from and Asturalian paper, so I don't know how old it is. Its a good site to get the "what's up" for CI and it also has scenes from scripts for upcomming episodes under the Criminal Intent link. Pretty neato. I read 2 scenes from the episode with Logan's return, and it sounds awesome! Check out the site, it rocks! |
|
MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
|
Post by MelTex on Feb 2, 2005 12:22:14 GMT -5
Ok, the name of the post is "Aussie Star Magazine Interview Jan 8-14" on www.thereelvincentdonofrio.comThey ask Vince at the end about Goren's character this season, he tells them that "darker is where they're going." Enjoy!  |
|
|
|
Post by Marie on Feb 2, 2005 14:47:43 GMT -5
Ok, the name of the post is "Aussie Star Magazine Interview Jan 8-14" on www.thereelvincentdonofrio.comThey ask Vince at the end about Goren's character this season, he tells them that "darker is where they're going." Enjoy!
VDO: "I do get a lot of imput. On a daily basis you think of ideas and you never know if they'll use them or not. I develop film myself, too. So with any ideas I have, I see if they can work as films before I think of the show."
Q: How would you like Goren's character to develop?
VDO: "We're going darker and darker. It's the only direction to go in!"YEAH...!!!!!! I was RIGHT! HAH! Take THAT "Forum people" who didn't think it was even possible - as I'd speculated it could be, that some of what we've seen thus far of "moody Goren" in season 4 owed to D'Onofrio's creative imput on the show! Chuckle! Because that confirms it was indeed possible. For now it's being added into evidence along side my previously submitted mention of a clip featuring Dick Wolf and D'Onofrio in a cast interview from a DVD: www.thereelvincentdonofrio.com/clips/clipsfilms/clipsgalleryfilms.htmlLO:CI Begininngs - 3rd row down. So if Balcer initially handed Vincent the "let's go darker" idea at the start of season 4, I don't think - imo - it's a stretch now to suppose likely he ran with it! As he was all for the darker direction. Doesn't mean I want dark for 23 episodes! LOL! But I do feel a little vindicated, nevertheless, for having argued in favor of my supposition in the first place. Smile. Oh, hey! I'm a Silver Shield Investigator, now! Sweet. |
|
|
|
Post by Techguy on Feb 2, 2005 14:53:35 GMT -5
I admit I'm not as up-to-date on the Vincent D'Onofrio interviews as some other members. But from what I've read on this board and elsewhere, I'm getting the uncomfortable feeling that the Det. Goren character is becoming not so much an evolving work in progress but more of a creation designed to cater to the wants and needs of the fans who post on Internet boards.
Is this too simplistic an assessment, or are D'Onofrio, Wolf, Balcer, et al really trying to piece together a character with a "something sure to please everyone" approach?
I think too highly of CI, the actor D'Onofrio, and the creative minds behind the show to even want to consider the possibility they structure the stories on an as needs basis in order to cater to the wants and needs of fans who post on the Internet. Then again, I didn't expect them to come up with a "let's let viewers decide if Nicole lives or dies" scenario, either. So at this point I can't say for certain what I believe or not.
Don't get me wrong--I acknowledge and appreciate a certain amount of recognition of fan interest in CI and Det. Goren. I do, however, draw the line at turning the character and his psyche into some sort of jigsaw puzzle for viewers to assemble on a week-to-week basis. This sort of approach calls to mind the creation of a Frankenstein monster--and we all know how that story turned out.
|
|
Patrick Roy, 2006 inductee into the Hockey Hall of Fame
