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Post by NicoleMarie on Feb 11, 2005 9:17:03 GMT -5
Hmmm :::Scratches head::: I first voiced my opinion because I thought some comments were rather mean. My smileys were there for a reason. I tried to repond with a bit of humor to try to soften the comments. Obviously that was missed, or just ignored. Maybe I just did not make myself clear enough. I am sorry if I offened anyone but, I think people darn well know it was not my intent to be mean, because it was not. I'm not sorry I voiced an obviously unpopular opinion. And if some want to insult me for doing so, hey, whatever. I can take the heat. If someone misinterpets or questions what I say, ask. Do not misrepresent me, silently or otherwise. I enjoy reading this board and do not want this board to be divived by the "us VS. them" mentality. There is a new group of us who are not as...should I say...as tactful or as elegant as the rest but, our intentions should not be miscontrued because of that. I think we all just want to discuss and have fun. To Vance: I could say you are calling the kettle black as you are treating us the same way you say we treated Ointmentfly, but I won't. I will simply look to the brighter side and say you were voicing your opinion of discontentment just as we did. Obviously, we will not see eye to eye on some things but, and I'm not going to bait you or insult you because I don't want to things to snowball. Instead, I will say continue to post and enjoy the board. And to Ointmentfly: Hey, let's cut out the middlemen/middlewomen! ;D I thought you were being mean but, obviously you were not. I did not mean to offend you or try to run you off. I have no right to try to run you off the board no more than someone has to tell me how I can feel. So, as they say on "The Price Is Right": Come on down!!!
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Feb 11, 2005 9:46:03 GMT -5
GorenRocks - I think MelTex was being .... snide? as most of us will have heard that phrase. No, I was not being "snide" Metella. I'm not a snide person, I'm prety peaceful and easy going...'snidness' doesn't jive with me. I honestly didn't know of "circle jerks" being groups masturbation...and since I read that part of Vance's post wrong...I had it wrong on both contexts. I have heard of many polite terms for "jerking off", but "circle jerk" was new to me. And Thanks Gorenrocks....no you weren't being crude when you told me what it meant...you were just being nice enough to give me the true meaning. Thanks for being nice enough to reply to me as well. Big smoochies! BTW, Gorenrocks...I really like you screen name *smile*. Thats a cool name, and Goren does rock! *grin* And yea...'circle jerk' is kinda funny too...*chuckle*
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Feb 11, 2005 9:51:33 GMT -5
GorenRocks - I think MelTex was being .... snide? as most of us will have heard that phrase. I had gone back and changed my post to Vance, Metella so Gorenrocks was refering to the fact that I was calling it a "circle of jerks"...therefore messing up the meaning. Pretty funny mess up if you ask me, especially since I didn't know what that 'circle jerk' was refering to in the first place. I had to go back and take out some of my rants in my post to Vance, after I realized I shouldn't get in a huff over nothing. Smoochies to Metella and Gorenrocks! ~mel
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Post by Metella on Feb 11, 2005 10:09:54 GMT -5
I didn't mean snide in a negative way .... more in a way that you were teasing about the meaning & then BANG to find out you had not run across this phrase... Sooo freaking funny. Hey, if a dude over 21 has never found himself a part of a circle of jerks - then he isn't playing at life hard enough. oh, was that a pun? hum? ;D ack - I just slay myself.
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Feb 11, 2005 10:15:43 GMT -5
I didn't mean snide in a negative way .... more in a way that you were teasing about the meaning & then BANG to find out you had not run across this phrase... Sooo freaking funny. Hey, if a dude over 21 has never found himself a part of a circle of jerks - then he isn't playing at life hard enough. oh, was that a pun? hum? ;D ack - I just slay myself. *giggle* That was pretty cute! Though what's sad is, I knew some guys in college..who'd have liked a "circle jerk"...with a "circle of jerks" *smirk* Hmmm...thats just kinda a scary vision to me...*eeessh*
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Feb 11, 2005 11:28:50 GMT -5
Looks like Logan is getting off of Staten Island. According to Variety, Chris Noth will be regular on CI next season. He'll be in about 11 episodes and VDO will be in a similar number of episodes. The ladies on the Reel site have posted the entire article. Okay, i can stand him being a 'regular' character rather than i 'main' character. It'll be cool to watch Bobby & him go head to head... i just hope that Bobby makes a fool out of him!
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Post by Patcat on Feb 11, 2005 14:19:58 GMT -5
Here's another take: Noth's return to duty is a sweet valentine On occasion, your television gets out of its typical routine of teasing and disappointment to send you its love with a dozen roses. It lets you know that it loves you, baby. Really it does. TV treats you bad sometimes -- OK, a lot -- but the good times you share with it keep you hanging on. * Read the full article at: seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/211552_tv11.htmlPatcat
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Post by Patcat on Feb 11, 2005 14:22:16 GMT -5
And another: -------------------- Prelude to a shared caseload -------------------- BY NOEL HOLSTON STAFF WRITER February 11, 2005 LAW & ORDER: CRIMINAL INTENT. Chris Noth reprises his early "L&O" character, Det. Mike Logan, in a particularly political episode of "Criminal Intent." Sunday night at 9 on NBC/4. For months, controversy has swirled around "Criminal Intent" and its lead actor, Vincent D'Onofrio. Was he exhausted? Ill? Impossible? One rumor had NBC and Wolf Films booting him in favor of Chris Noth, who played Det.Mike Logan in the original "Law & Order" from 1990 to 1995. Whatever the truth is, here's how that off-camera drama is actually going to play out: Noth and D'Onofrio will take turns heading "Criminal Intent" investigations next season, 11 episodes each. Noth's guest appearance Sunday night opens that door. It's a thickly plotted and unusually political episode revolving around the murder of a federal prison guard. It's established that before his death, the guard had been having trouble sleeping. Ultimately, it comes out that he was finding it difficult to keep silent about inmate abuse he had witnessed. Noth's Mike Logan - who, we're reminded, has been policing on Staten Island since he punched out a politician in 1995 - re-enters the "L&O" universe when detective partners Robert Goren (D'Onofrio) and Alexandra Eames (Kathryn Erbe) question a prison nurse who seems to be hiding something. As it conveniently happens, she's Logan's girlfriend. He shows up at Goren and Eames' precinct, demanding to be let in on the investigation. And even though he's abrasive and has an obvious conflict of interest, they oblige him. Apart from the coincidences, the episode is burdened by well-meaning but heavy-handed commentary about civil-rights abuses in the name of homeland security. At one point, Logan says, "The Patriot Act? I read that under its original title - '1984.'" The investigation leads to a confrontation that's improbable but undeniably tense. And standing alongside D'Onofrio's theatrical, mannered Det. Goren, Noth's gruff, cocky Logan looks more credibly NYPD than ever. Copyright (c) 2005, Newsday, Inc. -------------------- This article originally appeared at: www.newsday.com/features/printedition/ny-ettvtwo4140132feb11,0,2749242.story?coll=ny-features-print Patcat
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Post by Patcat on Feb 11, 2005 14:32:55 GMT -5
And from that paragon of virtue (g), the NEW YORK POST:
SHEER AGONY
Fri Feb 11, 6:22 AM ET Entertainment - PageSix Gossip/Celeb
By LINDA STASI
YOU'LL be happy to know that Det. Mike Logan, who was busted to the relative calm of Staten Island way back when, is back at his old precinct, "Law & Order" — or, more precisely, "Law & Order: Criminal Intent."
• The Some Of His Parts • A Sometimes Funny 'chorus Line' L-I-T-E • Chinese Dancers Off 'the Wall' • Predict Chiefs' Success • Biggest Loser
This Sunday night, Logan, a/k/a Mr. Big, a/k/a Chris Noth returns after a 10-year absence to the place where it started — although without his partner of old, Lenny Briscoe, the oldest cop in the history of New York.
Noth will only be guesting this Sunday, yes, but he's guesting in a script that ushers in his return full-time next season.
To make Logan's return logical, the writers came up with an illogical script about NYPD detectives discovering that American Muslims are being secretly held without charges in a Brooklyn federal lock-up under the Patriot Act and the Material Witness Warrant statute. Not only are the secret prisoners beaten silly on a daily basis, but the guards kill other correction officers who even try to quit.
The prisoners and ex-prisoners are afraid to talk, and so are their American families. Clearly what we got here is Abu Ghraib, B'klyn.
Anyway, Logan gets involved after a corrections officer who had just quit is murdered in his stairwell — with his privates left out in public. It turns out that Logan's new girlfriend just happens to work at that same prison.
So what's a disgruntled-yet-good exiled-to-Staten Island-cop to do? Right. Logan storms into his old station house demanding to know what's going on.
He then joins Detectives Goren (Vincent D'Onofrio) and Eames (Kate Erbe) to hunt down and break the prison commander who is forcing all the other guards to beat the secret prisoners, and use number 3 pencils for things other than writing poetry.
No matter, welcome back, Chris.
The fact that you weren't set upon and tortured yourself by rampaging angry females (not prison guards) when you were the despicable Mr. Big is, it turns out, a good thing.
Patcat
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Post by janetcatbird on Feb 11, 2005 16:25:38 GMT -5
OK, I can't remember every little detail of what went on in previous pages, but here's what's important to me and sticks in my head.
OintmentFly, for the record I was not trying to be ugly when I asked about your sources, I simply wanted to know where you'd heard. I may be a bit skeptical (in terms of "how reliable is it or is it just rumor?") but I at least want to know before I make up my mind.
Vance, I'm sorry to see you go, you always had interesting posts. Thank you for pointing out some issues that needed to be raised. Although lately it seems this board has felt a bit different, I couldn't tell if it was or if I was just distracted. There were occassions when it seemed a bit teeny-bopper. Good grief people, Conrad Birdie had to leave too and life goes on.
Trisha's right, some of us don't like D'onofrio. I'm not saying I despise him or that he's an awful actor, I have repeatedly siad he does a god job playing Goren. However, I do not think him the greatest thing since sliced bread. Again, I may be reading with the wrong slant and I'd like to be wrong, but in some of the interviews D'Onofrio has come across as a bit snobbish towards the show; he seems to feel that he's "slumming" in a TV show just to see what it's like. And while I an understand an actor being a bit tired, if his boredom causes bits of hamminess just to keep himself amused, I as a viewer am less than pleased. That's just my personal bias based on the few interviews I've read and the episodes I've seen, but whether he means to or not that's how he came across, and I get a bit miffed.
Now, Logan. What was so appealing about the character? Sure, he was eye candy but the character was also very cocky and somewhat one-note. Of course, like any L&O character they gave a few flashes of insight--his less than Rockwell childhood and incidents with the priest--but while it made one sympathetic I was still not enamored. (Personally I think Ed Green was the coolest, in terms of chemistry, well roundedness and character.) I have not seen terribly much of Chris Noth the actor, but in the few episodes of "Sex and the City" that I saw (admittedly the cleaned-up TBS versions) Mr. Big seemed to be Logan after hours, not a lot of depth. I have a hard time seeing this character fit into CI. Do they feel so threatened by the Housewives that they're trying to hype the boy toy as the way to ratings? And while the review/previews don't sound promising, I will try to be good and hold off ranting till I see the episode.
And feel free to ask me about my views--if I (or any other member) can't back myself up in a friendly exchange, well then...
Later all, Catbird#nosmileys
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Post by velocity on Feb 11, 2005 23:06:50 GMT -5
You know what fellow posters, a great deal of effort has gone into saying "Please don't go Vance" but as I read it, as a member of the circle jerk crew/Vance, it was meant to be insulting. Why, because I like and enjoy the actor and the show? Vance was pretty harsh, I am sure intentionally so. I am hard pressed to apologize. As a matter of fact, I believe, he is the one that might take a step back. I am hurt, and frankly feel as a newbie, I have been basically ignored, and now insulted. If the flavor of the board has been degraded into "teeny bopper" land and the newbies are at the root of that, just say so, and I will be on my way. As I see it, four people were insulted by a man you are entreating? I gather that implies he is correct? I get the feeling, if I am wrong, excuse me, but the "orginals" talk/respond to each other and the newbies spin in a seperate circle.
Why is it such a no-no to enjoy the actor as well as the character and the show? Is that what this board wishes to do? I an enthusiastic gush over the actor slips in, it is ridiculed. Is there something I missed? You are allowed to intellectualize about the show, and discuss what the characters do, but don't go near the actors who create the characters cause that is soapy? Is that what this board is about?
I came here because I love the show, and Vincent's character, and maybe increase my cyber friendships but I will say I have not been made to feel welcome and now I have been insulted. If people don't fit into the "in crowd" is it possible we are all taking ourselves a bit too seriously?
For the record, I also did not insult ointmentfly. I merely cleared up a misinterpreted statement. I even re-read it to check.
So like the eloquant Vance, I will take my leave and take my soapy, teeny bopper Vincent thoughts with me. I hope the board thrives on the chatter of 5 people.
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Post by janetcatbird on Feb 11, 2005 23:43:39 GMT -5
Velocity, I for one consider it a knee-jerk reaction that if someone leaves I would like them to think twice so they don't leave in a huff, and the same applies to you. I should have explained further from what I did, I was trying to be brief.
I don't believe anybody here has a shrine to D'Onofrio in terms of incense or anything like that. I certainly understand being intrigued by certain personalities, I guess the fact that D'Onofrio isn't one of mine made me kind of blank out. What disappoints me is that people who seem to love the structure, etc. of the show refuse to give it a chance with anyone else. "Where Vincent goes, I go" or similar phrases remind me--my own self personally--of romantic ballads or melodrama.
Now, the thing about text is that you miss on tone and inflection and I certainly acknowledge the possibility of misreading. I don't mind the occassional comment that someone is attractive, what I object to is when it dominates the post. Even among the "originals", I got rather snippy about discussions that seemed to focus on the actor's hair, so you're dealing with a rather impatient individual. And among the "originals" there is a good chunk of rather devoted D'Onofrio fans, if you read, it's just that people can focus on elements of the show besides him.
Was Vance harsh, yes. And Vance, if you read this please don't think I'm talking behind your back. I tried to stay out of the discussion because I figured it was best to lay low, but now I'm trying to pacify. Personally I don't approve of his mocking tone, I tried to ignore the subject, especially since I wasn't involved. I can understand that you're upset. I would rather this whole mess have been dealt with through private messages, but considering that it is drawing the whole board into it...
Oh rats, look, anyone and everyone if I have offended you I apologize. I think we all need to be a little more sensitive to others' tastes and opinions. (And now we all gather in a circle and pull out the lighters to sing Kum Ba Ya.) OK, that was uncalled for, sorry. But can we all just take a bit of time and deep breathing before we go biting at each other?
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Post by NicoleMarie on Feb 11, 2005 23:45:07 GMT -5
I agree whole-heartedly with Velocity's post.
Instead of retaliating, I decided to let his insults roll off my back. I'm a lover, not a fighter. I am not interested in fighting, as it is a complete waste of time. Fighting will go no where fast and nothing will be resolved. Especially if they punch and run. I too hope to make cyber friends and will shrug off those who choose not to be friendly towards me. I think that choice makes life (and message boards) alot easier.
And I hope you stick around too, Velocity.
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Post by gorenrocks on Feb 12, 2005 3:29:17 GMT -5
hey all, not to fan the flames or anything, but i don't necessarily think vance's post was such a horrible thing. it seems to have hit a nerve with enough folks here that it's not a bad idea to discuss them. was vance harsh? hell, yeah! but no more so than some of the responses to ointment fly's posts. aside from ointment fly suggesting that d'onofrio himself might be the cause of the cast shake-up, he didn't say anything to make me think he was being mean. like, he could've said things like "hee hee you stupid goren fans, you don't know what you're talking about" or something like that. THAT would seem mean to me. it was just information. whether that information is just ointment fly's opinion or actual "inside" scoop, i dunno. but, i read vance's post as being deliberately harsh to make a point. obviously a point made out of anger/frustration, but still a point. i followed his posts in other topics, and never got the impression he was a nutty mean freak or anything like that. i could be wrong, but that was just my impression. those who've noted that things like tone and facial expression get lost in the typing are right. even smileys can be seen as sarcastic, i guess. and maybe, if nothing else, the whole "vancegate" incident will remind everybody of that. when i went back and read this thread up to vance's post, i was kinda struck by how many people were so quick to place the blame for the cast shake-up on anybody and everybody other than d'onofrio. and pretty forcefully, too. that sorta came out in responses to ointment fly's posts. after the fact, it's kinda easy to say i didn't mean it like that, or whatever, but when it was happening, not alot of folks were even willing to consider that d'onofrio coulda had something to do with what was going on, and there were alot of shoot-the-messenger vibes, and the name calling didn't really start with vance. i've been a big fan of d'onfrio's since full metal jacket, and i'm a fan of actors in general, but i can see how it might be frustrating to others, especially when tone and facial expressions aren't there to help. so, vance, buddy, if you're out there, i'd like to see you come back. i appreciated your honesty, and actually think the discussion you started is a good thing in the long run for this board. and ointment fly, i'd like to know what you have to say about the casting stuff. WHO'S THE NEW HOLMES? ?? come on, buddy, don't leave a guy hanging like this!! as i said before, i'm mainly a lurker on this site (come by about once a week or so) but have been lurking a good long while, and i like it that way. i enjoy reading the posts without having the time or desire to add to them. that's kinda one of the great things about boards like this. you don't have to be active in them to get something out of them. maybe i don't have enough of a stake or right or whatever to post on this topic, but for whatever reason, vance's post made some sense to me and i thought i'd post. i know crim intent is only a tv show, as everybody here does, but, you know, it's also a helluva lot of fun, and that counts for something too. so i think it's only natural for people to have strong feelings about it. anyway, it's not at all my intent to insult or diss anybody here. i think alot of everybody who posts on this board. be well, gorenrocks.
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Post by LOCIfan on Feb 12, 2005 5:03:48 GMT -5
gorenrocks,
Thank you for your lovely post. I agree that things such as tone, facial expressions (and, in worst case scenarios, intent) can get lost in posts such as these. But I read a real sincerity in your post, and found it touching.
velocity,
I'm sorry you felt that as a "newbie" you were ignored, then "insulted." I'm assuming you mean you were insulted by Vance, and not anyone else.
If you felt ignored, you know, I don't quite know what to say. I looked at your "10 most recent posts" and they seemed to be deep in the heart of ongoing discussions.
General Thoughts:
Speaking only for myself, I will say that I welcome new posters and new perspectives, and do my best (within reason, as this is a board re: a TV show -- not that I'm denigrating that fact, but, you know, in the scope of things...) to welcome newcomers to the board. And will also add that one of the things I enjoy most about this board is the high level of intellect found in the posters, as well as the high level of courtesy.
It does upset me when posters, whether new or old, aren't courteous to other posters. That's just me. I don't particularly care what one poster has to say to another as long as it's respectful and civil.
Again, gorenrocks, I found your post very thoughtful, and am grateful you decided to de-lurk and post it. You have as much right and stake and whatever else in this site to post whatever you wish to post. As, I think, does anyone who enjoys this site.
Thank you to all who've contributed to this discussion and to this site. And special thanks to the amazing Mods of this board for allowing this conversation to continue! You truly are the heart and soul of this board!
Best, LOCIfan
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