Post by outsider on Dec 10, 2007 10:52:33 GMT -5
I re-watched the ending, I cannot hear what you are hearing, I put the volume up to the point where it was uncomfortable. I am just not picking up on the words. I do hear people talking or yelling loudly in background.
Donna Jo is right in that if you were meant to hear these voices because they are supposed to add to the story as in suggest that Goren is hearing voices, they would have it in close captioning unless someone screwed up. But that would be hard to do, it would be in the script that Goren hears voices and what the voices say.
I am not doubting those of you who hear Goren's name called or "what is going on?" or whatever, they are shooting on location, it is not unusual for the public to yell and they do tend to call the actor by their character's name if they are not on the cover of People or NE regularly. Keep in mind it was shot late, in Times Square, there were probably a lot of drunks out there. But even knowing what you heard, even predisposed to hear it, I cannot hear it --- sorry.
It did sound as if they manipulated the background ambient sound so as to make it almost sound as if it were shot in a tunnel. If you have one of those surround hi fi systems that allows you to balance the sound in such a way with your equalizer to make it sound as if you were hearing it in a large theater or whatever -- it is a similar quality -- I may have detected a little reverb but mostly I hear the hollow fx. This is often done to suggest states of mind such as disorientation (not in this case I think) or isolation (plot point). The idea is that his mind is blocking out the sounds around him thus the distancing fx and he is within himself. He is alone in the world's most busy crossroad or whatever. Just my opinion. TV producers love to end a "season" with a cliff hanger and they are using a two part season now Fall and Spring apparently or at least that was the plan before the strike.
The music track is loud. If I were the producer and this was meant to suggest that he is "hearing voices" a la schizophrenia -- I would seriously consider firing the sound mixers. However, since there is almost always a supervising post production producer sitting in on the mixes, dictating what they want and making sure he/she is hearing what he/she wants to hear, what you hear is what they intended. However, it is not unusual for the sound men and producer to miss what a person on the street shouts, they are so focused on the sound fx, the mix, I didn't hear it. Or if they did hear it --- that may be why they changed the sound quality -- the hollow fx combined with loud music -- in the hopes of minimizing it. Otherwise they would have to go to the sound library, find traffic noise that matches the background.... They are on a tight budget too. It is such a short shot, a casual viewer is not going to be listening with the same attention that all of you do, so if they did hear someone shout those things, they probably thought they could downplay it by goosing up the music and distorting the ambient and no one would be the wiser. Personally I think the sound fx they were using were deliberate and not meant to hide the background voices of people on the street. That type of mix is so often used to convey that "feeling," it is SOP.
If they meant for the viewer to pick up on that plot point -- that Goren is hearing voices, you would hear those voices much more distinctly and the ambient sound would be way in the background -- this would be a huge plot point. And Vincent would not be standing there looking lost or defeated or feeling hopeless, frustrated or whatever, he would have his arms wrapped around his head trying to stop the noise and might very well end up crumbling to the ground ..... Everything I have read about this sort of mental illness is that the voices one hears are really loud and pretty insistent. This is VDO we are talking about -- if his character was hearing voices you would know it.
Moreover, I heard a second male voice yell -- one more dominant than the other... I frankly think it is just a bunch of drunken kids commenting on the action they are seeing in Times Square probably at 3 in the morning. I cannot understand a word they are saying and chances are the sound guys mixing it didn't pick up on it either. When they do sound mixes, they do it with the sound at almost a deafening level -- most of the sound men I know and many a producer have major hearing loss. This can also play a role.
A sound man told me a funny story about doing sound for a project shot in Hawaii involving street sounds. There was a shot of Honolulu street traffic. It was either a library shot, or from a second unit shooting visuals only. Anyway, they pulled traffic sound from the sound library at Universal. The reel was labeled with an Eastern city's name traffic -- like "Boston Traffic." The director or producer was a real type A personality, very hyper, drove everyone nuts. He was an ARTISTE! He saw the sound reel marked "Boston Traffic" -- and told them they cannot use Boston traffic, it must be Honolulu. He was insistent. They were not allowed to mix until they found "Honolulu Traffic." "GET IT NOW!" So the sound men looked at one another, knowing the guy was nuts. The library traffic sound they were using was recorded in a part of the city that was similar to that of the shot -- number of buildings, width of street, cab noises, honks, buses.... it worked. So Mr. Artiste walked off in a huff. The sound men looked at one another wondering what the heck they were going to do and one of the guys said, no problem. He took the reel, removed the label, put on a new label saying "Honolulu Traffic." They went for a long lunch, chilled. Then called the Artiste that they found it. He demanded to see the label, he approved. Then they started the mixing process again and the Artiste said "Doesn't that sound more realistic? I told you so!" LOL
I don't have time to re-read this, to edit, I have to be at PT in an hour and I am not dressed ...... EEEEK! So apologies in advance if I wrote something that makes no sense etc.
Donna Jo is right in that if you were meant to hear these voices because they are supposed to add to the story as in suggest that Goren is hearing voices, they would have it in close captioning unless someone screwed up. But that would be hard to do, it would be in the script that Goren hears voices and what the voices say.
I am not doubting those of you who hear Goren's name called or "what is going on?" or whatever, they are shooting on location, it is not unusual for the public to yell and they do tend to call the actor by their character's name if they are not on the cover of People or NE regularly. Keep in mind it was shot late, in Times Square, there were probably a lot of drunks out there. But even knowing what you heard, even predisposed to hear it, I cannot hear it --- sorry.
It did sound as if they manipulated the background ambient sound so as to make it almost sound as if it were shot in a tunnel. If you have one of those surround hi fi systems that allows you to balance the sound in such a way with your equalizer to make it sound as if you were hearing it in a large theater or whatever -- it is a similar quality -- I may have detected a little reverb but mostly I hear the hollow fx. This is often done to suggest states of mind such as disorientation (not in this case I think) or isolation (plot point). The idea is that his mind is blocking out the sounds around him thus the distancing fx and he is within himself. He is alone in the world's most busy crossroad or whatever. Just my opinion. TV producers love to end a "season" with a cliff hanger and they are using a two part season now Fall and Spring apparently or at least that was the plan before the strike.
The music track is loud. If I were the producer and this was meant to suggest that he is "hearing voices" a la schizophrenia -- I would seriously consider firing the sound mixers. However, since there is almost always a supervising post production producer sitting in on the mixes, dictating what they want and making sure he/she is hearing what he/she wants to hear, what you hear is what they intended. However, it is not unusual for the sound men and producer to miss what a person on the street shouts, they are so focused on the sound fx, the mix, I didn't hear it. Or if they did hear it --- that may be why they changed the sound quality -- the hollow fx combined with loud music -- in the hopes of minimizing it. Otherwise they would have to go to the sound library, find traffic noise that matches the background.... They are on a tight budget too. It is such a short shot, a casual viewer is not going to be listening with the same attention that all of you do, so if they did hear someone shout those things, they probably thought they could downplay it by goosing up the music and distorting the ambient and no one would be the wiser. Personally I think the sound fx they were using were deliberate and not meant to hide the background voices of people on the street. That type of mix is so often used to convey that "feeling," it is SOP.
If they meant for the viewer to pick up on that plot point -- that Goren is hearing voices, you would hear those voices much more distinctly and the ambient sound would be way in the background -- this would be a huge plot point. And Vincent would not be standing there looking lost or defeated or feeling hopeless, frustrated or whatever, he would have his arms wrapped around his head trying to stop the noise and might very well end up crumbling to the ground ..... Everything I have read about this sort of mental illness is that the voices one hears are really loud and pretty insistent. This is VDO we are talking about -- if his character was hearing voices you would know it.
Moreover, I heard a second male voice yell -- one more dominant than the other... I frankly think it is just a bunch of drunken kids commenting on the action they are seeing in Times Square probably at 3 in the morning. I cannot understand a word they are saying and chances are the sound guys mixing it didn't pick up on it either. When they do sound mixes, they do it with the sound at almost a deafening level -- most of the sound men I know and many a producer have major hearing loss. This can also play a role.
A sound man told me a funny story about doing sound for a project shot in Hawaii involving street sounds. There was a shot of Honolulu street traffic. It was either a library shot, or from a second unit shooting visuals only. Anyway, they pulled traffic sound from the sound library at Universal. The reel was labeled with an Eastern city's name traffic -- like "Boston Traffic." The director or producer was a real type A personality, very hyper, drove everyone nuts. He was an ARTISTE! He saw the sound reel marked "Boston Traffic" -- and told them they cannot use Boston traffic, it must be Honolulu. He was insistent. They were not allowed to mix until they found "Honolulu Traffic." "GET IT NOW!" So the sound men looked at one another, knowing the guy was nuts. The library traffic sound they were using was recorded in a part of the city that was similar to that of the shot -- number of buildings, width of street, cab noises, honks, buses.... it worked. So Mr. Artiste walked off in a huff. The sound men looked at one another wondering what the heck they were going to do and one of the guys said, no problem. He took the reel, removed the label, put on a new label saying "Honolulu Traffic." They went for a long lunch, chilled. Then called the Artiste that they found it. He demanded to see the label, he approved. Then they started the mixing process again and the Artiste said "Doesn't that sound more realistic? I told you so!" LOL
I don't have time to re-read this, to edit, I have to be at PT in an hour and I am not dressed ...... EEEEK! So apologies in advance if I wrote something that makes no sense etc.