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Post by NikkiGreen on Oct 5, 2005 15:20:21 GMT -5
Seems to me that Logan with the pool stick was no different from Goren swinging a metal bar at Lance Brody ("A Murderer Among Us")
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 5, 2005 15:34:27 GMT -5
I wasn't too impressed with Goren swinging the bar but I knew Goren wouldn't actually strike Lance with it. I knew Goren wouldn't actually harm Lance with it. I remeber thinking it was rather bizzare for Goren to get a bit...violent but also giggled when I knew Goren had no intention of hitting him. Logan, actually had the stick into the guys throat, which had to have been hurting the guy. When Logan played with the nightstick in "Stress Position" I knew he could not and would not have hit the guy with it. Knowing this made Logan's actions funny then. Had he hit him, it would not have been funny, at all. Am I making sense or just contradicting myself?
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javawolf
Rookie
Scatter poems on the floor. Turn the poet out the door.
Posts: 16
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Post by javawolf on Oct 5, 2005 19:52:13 GMT -5
Totally making sense, I know what you're saying. I wasn't entirely certain logen wouldn't beat the guy to a bloody pulp, but I honestly don't know his character very well.
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Post by Techguy on Oct 5, 2005 21:29:24 GMT -5
Techguy, I was really surprised to read your comment that the use of diamonds in this episode meant that “...CI had "been there, done that."” Both the psychological elements and the track of the investigation were very different. If the robberies had focused on designer watches, or furs, for instance, would you have seen the two episodes as being so parallel? I don’t see the episodes as being very parallel at all. If anything, the element of diamonds being involved served, for me, to highlight the differences. While there are obvious differences in how the jewelry heists were handled in the two episodes, I still would have much preferred a completely different crime altogether. I didn't see the stolen diamonds element as being parallel so much as a case of CI trying TOO hard to introduce the new MCS team by connecting it to the series premiere (and by default the Goren/Eames partnership) from several seasons ago. Too much deja vu for my personal taste.
ETA: LOCIfan, I agree that we the audience already know about Logan's past regarding his mother. My thinking is as you described, it came across too soon in the Logan/Barek partnership in the current CI to be believable and acceptable. I just don't feel the trust element between these two has been established well enough for Barek to expose Logan's skeleton in front of a suspect in such an abrupt manner.
ETA #2: About the different opening credits...It makes sense to have separate D'Onofrio/Erbe and Noth/Sciorra openings. Otherwise we would end up with competing first and second leads with a "pecking order" such as Jefferaldo described. With separate openings, there is no staking out of "top billing" alpha male territory between D'Onofrio and Noth, and no competition between the second leads Erbe and Sciorra either. There are enough questions and issues involved with the division of episodes already, no need to further add to the drama with any possible infighting about who is billed above whom in the CI hierarchy.
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Post by Summerfield on Oct 5, 2005 23:24:45 GMT -5
Yeah, de ja vu. But I think the diamond heists and the frenzy each produced, gave both new characters an arena in which to operate. With each new crime spree, the personality/style of Logan and Barek was gradually introduced, giving us some insight to their behavior and personal attitudes.
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Post by BegToDiffer on Oct 6, 2005 12:29:48 GMT -5
jefferaldo, I understand Nicolemarie's comments. For some of us, just the idea of bringing Logan into Major Case seems ridiculous. His character may have worked on another show, but I have never thought he would fit into this special unit. I personally am darn near hostile about messing with a show that is near perfect. But since they were forced to change things, why couldn't they write in a whole new character? Anyway, now that he's here, we have to live with it. I said I would give the new version a chance, and I will, but I sure don't need a whole season to know whether or not I like something. Already I have doubts. When I drop out of discussions on Logan/Barek shows, you will know why. I also will be interested to see the ratings. I don't use them to decide if I watch a show, but I'd like to see the difference between last year and this year.
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Post by Summerfield on Oct 6, 2005 14:04:41 GMT -5
I can't help you with the ratings from last year, but this is what happened Sunday night. tv.zap2it.com"Desperate Housewives," 16.4/24, dominated the 9 p.m. hour and scored the night's biggest rating for ABC. NBC moved up to second with "Law & Order: Criminal Intent," 7.9/12
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javawolf
Rookie
Scatter poems on the floor. Turn the poet out the door.
Posts: 16
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Post by javawolf on Oct 6, 2005 18:23:20 GMT -5
Yay! Was it the new partnership people liked, or is the world full of late bloomers?
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Post by Techguy on Oct 6, 2005 21:54:11 GMT -5
Interesting ratings results. The Logan/Barak episode finished second in its time slot, whereas the series premiere "Grow" with Det. Goren and Eames (and Nicole) finished third or fourth?
It will be intriguing--and revealing--to see if the pattern continues or shifts as Season 5 moves along, taking into account the competition up against CI on a given Sunday night, of course.
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Post by NikkiGreen on Oct 6, 2005 23:07:35 GMT -5
For "Grow" it was,
I don't know how the numbers really work, but if you look at percentages, the numbers are similiar (.68 for Grow; .66 for DD). ?
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 7, 2005 20:08:26 GMT -5
The one real criticism of Berek that I agree with was LOCIfan’s comment that Berek has “...absolutely no sense of humor.” She certainly didn’t show any in this ep, and that could get tiresome before very long. Hopefully, as she gets more comfortable with Logan and her position in MCS, the writers will allow her to begin showing a sense of humor. It’s an important coping mechanism for many people in high stress jobs... and, from the viewers’ perspective, it’s an important element in this kind of show. Observer!! So great to see you posting again! Hope your computer woes are behind you and that we'll be seeing lots more of your thoughtful comments throughout the season! I agree that a sense of humor would go a long way toward making Barek a more interesting character. Currently, her affect falls on the side of dour for me. Also, I'm curious to know what kind of sense of humor she has (I mean, she MUST have one). Gallows humor? Sarcasm? Self-deprecating? Bring it on, LOCI writers!!
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 7, 2005 20:18:10 GMT -5
On the other hand, I do agree with you about the drawbacks of having such different opening credits. It makes it too much like two different series – too much like Columbo and McCloud, instead of being like SVU with just a bit more separation between the teams. Which credits will they use for the 2-hour episode where the two teams work together? Maybe they could have two variations of the same credits – one where Noth and Sciorra are shown first, and one where D’Onofrio and Erbe are shown first, both versions ending with a group shot similar to SVU (though perhaps a little less stagy). That might solve the problem of order of credits, without making it seem like two totally different series. See, I think the problem with having all of them in the opening credits is that the show can't credit actors who don't appear in the episode. A SAG-member friend of mine told me this a long while ago, and it would seem to apply to this situation. And that's a problem for CI, because the only actors appearing in all shows are Jamey Sheridan and Courtney Vance. But, I absolutely agree with you and others who've said it intensifies the feeling that there are two entirely different series airing on Sunday nights. That's something I find jarring. As for the two-hour episode, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a special credit sequence with all six of our heroes used especially for that episode. Can't wait for that one -- not the credit sequence, but the show itself! I'm guessing it'll be shown during November sweeps. I wonder how Goren and Barek will interact. Could be very interesting!
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Post by Patcat on Oct 7, 2005 23:21:01 GMT -5
I finally got to really see this episode tonight, and while they're not Goren and Eames, I found myself liking Logan and Barek. Noth knows this part inside out and plays it very well. I don't really fault Sciorra--she's an appealing and intelligent presence, and I hope she'll get a better grip on the character as time goes by. I have to confess, thought, I spent a lot of the episode looking for Goren and Eames in the background (g).
Patcat
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Post by strawberryksc on Oct 7, 2005 23:57:09 GMT -5
Hey everyone, I've been watching CI since the beginning and have been a lurker of these boards for over a year now (good to read when I don't have a book handy). I may never post again as this is a spur of the moment thing, and I've never really been a forum board person (or I might post so much that I'd never get any homework done).
I went through the thread, but I don't quite remember who said what, sorry. A few of you commented on the Logan/Barek partnership vs. the Goren/Eames one (mainly about the idea that Goren/Eames is "cold"), so I thought I could add my two cents.
At first I was upset seeing Logan and Barek discussing personal things (during the stake-out I believe), because of the no-soap aspect of CI, but when I thought about it this made sense. This is a new partnership, Barek is a new character to everyone and Logan is new to some viewers as well, so they need to know things about one another and so do we. Maybe the audience didn't get too much from Barek's character, but we did get to see the two of them getting to know each other. The idea about the two of them sort of testing one another to gain trust/show trust (again, I apologize as I can't remember who brought this up), Logan getting aggressive in the pool hall, and Barek's actions during interrogation, as well as the little conversation the two had in the car that I mentioned, do a lot to establish their characters and partnership. We can't go through the entire season without this progression or else people would wonder "How in the world did those two get so close? Didn't they *just* become partners?"
Since CI is supposed to be no-soap Goren and Eames don't need to get to know each other on-screen in the same way that Logan and Barek have to. The audience assumes that Goren and Eames have been partners for quite a while now (at least four years since we're in the fifth season) so it's alright that things between them are more subtle. Basically, Goren and Eames have found their groove, Logan and Barek haven't yet.
I didn't like Barek right-off, but that could be a "She isn't Goren" thing (during the Bishop episodes I yelled at the tv until I was hoarse that Eames was better than her). I'm going to give her more chances though because I was very happy with Logan here, and so am glad to watch another episode with this partnership.
These two did things differently from Goren and Eames, but it still felt like CI to me.
PS. Loved the scene where Barek and Deakins watch Logan in the other room ("I'm going to slam my fist against the table now." =D).
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Post by trisha on Oct 8, 2005 11:01:28 GMT -5
Well, I watched it again, and I agree with you about establishing the characters, Strawberryksc. Welcome to the board, btw I still found Barek to be bland and a tad boring, but I think Logan has tons of potential to make things interesting. I look forward to their next episode.
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