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Post by trisha on Nov 29, 2006 8:33:06 GMT -5
I loved this one, too.
Very insightful, Mikeyrocks. I agree with you, and it would be very SenGupta like to have woven this into the theme purposfully. Makes me wonder what will come of Wheeler's net fame.
I also love the Logan/Wheeler partnership. They are so much fun to watch, and when the story really works with the premise of CI (which this one did) it makes me wish all the episodes were Logan/Wheeler.
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outsider
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 98
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Post by outsider on Nov 29, 2006 9:33:13 GMT -5
I didn't link the ear business to Van Gogh at all, but who knows. I think it might more likely be inspired by the Getty kidnapping.
Multi millionaire J. Paul Getty's grandson was kidnapped for ransom. Getty thought it was a hoax and refused to pay. So the kidnappers cut off his grandson's ear and sent it in the post to prove that it was not a hoax. The cutting off of the ear in this episode's scenario was also to prove that it was not a hoax. The Getty kidnapping was a very big deal at the time and much of the public was horrified. We are talking a major high profile kidnapping here.
I don't recall where the ear was sent in this episode, how did the police get it? In the Getty kidnapping, the media was used, it was sent by the kidnappers to a newspaper's office.
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Post by madger on Nov 29, 2006 10:25:30 GMT -5
I enjoyed this one, it was fun.
Loved Wallace Shawn, I expected him to exclaim "Inconceivable!".
Loved Logan trying to foist the baby off on Wheeler, I imagine she would have the same expression he had, had she gotten stuck holding the kid.
I also liked the computer store clerk Bob, there was something very sweet and innocent about him.
SoberGal, they didn't get the money back, Willow had cleaned out the account, not the police. I guess without a complainant they can't charge them with extortion, the public seemed quite happy to go along with the whole thing.
Logan playing with the ear was pretty funny and Rodgers with the sawzall! gotta love that woman.
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Post by janetcatbird on Nov 29, 2006 10:29:49 GMT -5
Totally missed the Van Gogh connection with the ear. Hey, subtle fan tidbit! But I'm not sure Holden's ear was about love.
I'm slightly confused--why did the tatoo guy (I'm blanking on the name) shoot Todd with the blank that wound up killing him? Was that the supposed hoax to scare Holden into giving them the money/account numbers?
My roommate was listening and at the end when Willow told Larry King "I've secured financing" she got puzzled. "So she took the money?" That doesn't gel with the phone call from the lawyers, there's no way the authorities would let her, but I got confused.
I just loved that the apartment at the end had a very prominent poster of the film Grand Illusion. Hee! Haven't actually seen the film, but yay TCM junkies!
--Catbird
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Post by madger on Nov 29, 2006 10:43:54 GMT -5
Oh, and did anyone catch Ross' expression when the Commissioner? just shoved him aside at the news conference? Priceless.
Mikeyrocks, I think you have the essence of this episode, the isolation and lack of touch with what is real and what is not with the wide world web generation. The need for recognition, for recognition's sake is very sad to me, and now it is so much more available, you don't need talent, just a video cam.
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Post by Sirenna on Nov 29, 2006 11:11:14 GMT -5
Yes, that fits the criminals' actions, Outsider. I think the ear was mailed to the police and the internet and TV news was the modern-day media used to convey their intent. Janet: I'm fuzzy on names and scenes (went to bed way too late and woke up way too early this morning ) but I think they were trying an alternative ending to the story. Holden want to go out like a hero by fighting off the kidnappers, shooting them and saving the girl. However the other two cast members had other ideas. They wanted bigger parts so the one shot the other off camera. The survivor thought that he was doing it for Willow and that she wanted him rather than Holden. Great post, Mikeyrocks!
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Post by Metella on Nov 29, 2006 12:12:13 GMT -5
Two things I really liked about this episode - the bad guys were bad guys (Holden & Willow) not for bad childhoods and things thrust upon them; but because they made choices that were selfish, greed and ego driven. Finally.
Other: we got back to some criminal intent! It was hard to follow in the hoax, not a hoax mix - but in the end; we see some of the criminal's reasoning for the crimes. Finally.
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Post by miranda12 on Nov 29, 2006 12:32:45 GMT -5
I thought this was one of the best episodes ever - and ironic, since for most of it you didn't even know if there ws a real murder or not.
I agree that this was the best chemistry between Logan and Wheeler and as I've said before, this year, for the first time, the show actually makes me laugh - about time to infuse some humor with plot (go Logan and Rogers especially).
Do you all notice that there seems to be less emphasis on the overly serpentine plot twists and more on character. And like Metella said, these guys had only themselves to blame for their greed and narcissim. Was a little annoying that they didn't get caught - but I guess there was no real evidence against Willow and she was quite the schemer.
ALso, somebody pointed out that this kind of thing could actually happen - well it did happen - based on the Lonely Girl 15 vid blog that was supposed to be just a normal teenage girl's postings, but attracted a huge cult following, then turned out was all a scripted hoax. This ep just took it a step or two further.
Finally, doesn't the show just seem hipper and classier lately? Better stars, better direction, really interesting use of NYC - loved Larry King and the jumbotron- I just like the new look and feel. And this year, really do love Logan. Priceless.
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Post by caseyswife on Nov 29, 2006 12:38:43 GMT -5
Although I liked the episode and LOVED the interaction between Logan and Wheeler, I kept thinking about how great it would have been to see Bobby Goren chewing this one up... and all the snarks that Eames could have offered when dealing with Willow and Holden.
caseyswife
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Post by Techguy on Nov 29, 2006 13:46:34 GMT -5
As for the VanGogh allusions, it is a bit ironic that Holden loses his left ear, much the same as the artist (although VanGogh only lopped off the lower lobe, but still...) And it's doubly ironic that Reggie and Todd, the duped "actors" in the kidnapping drama hoax, end up replicating VanGogh's suicide, shot in the chest with a revolver. The bullet was too close to VanGogh's heart to be removed, and he eventually died two days after the shooting. In the modern day twist, Todd is undone by the packing in the blank Reggie fires to scare Holden. It seems no one involved in the kidnapping knew when the performance ends and reality begins.I'm slightly confused--why did the tatoo guy (I'm blanking on the name) shoot Todd with the blank that wound up killing him? Was that the supposed hoax to scare Holden into giving them the money/account numbers? The name of the guy with the filmstrip/snake tattoo is Reggie. I think you got it right Catbird--Reggie shot Todd with the blank to scare Holden into revealing the account numbers. And thanks, Techguy, for bringing up the snark thread again. It will give us a project for the next few weeks of re-runs till the new episodes hit again! Just because CI goes on holiday break doesn't mean there won't be homework assignments! The snark class is in session, and as Sirenna suggests, there might also be an all-time best snark poll on the horizon too. I'm thinking that one could go up during summer vacation to tide us over to *hopefully* the fall 2006 premiere of CI Season 7!
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Post by Techguy on Nov 29, 2006 16:09:15 GMT -5
Whats the reference to Kurosawas Rashoman? I read it on another board? Anyone get it? At one point in all the confusion about what's really going on, Captain Ross says, "It's cyber-Rashomon. Reggie says Holden shot Todd, Holden says Reggie did it, and Willow doesn't even believe anyone's dead." Ross, speaking on behalf of us viewers, is making the connection to Kurosawa's film where eyewitnesses give varying accounts of what happened.
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Post by sobergal95 on Nov 29, 2006 18:01:10 GMT -5
SoberGal, they didn't get the money back, Willow had cleaned out the account, not the police. I guess without a complainant they can't charge them with extortion, the public seemed quite happy to go along with the whole thing. . OOOOOHHHHH... OOOOKKKKK. I thought the police got it. So thats Willow's "financing" then? Sometimes I'm a lil slow! It was still a fun ride! And I just love the chemistry between Wheeler and Logan. They are just fun to watch together, they've come quite a way in a short time from "Tru Love". Kudos to both the writers and the actors! Personally, I feel more of an emotional "investment" in Wheeler than I had for Barek; I LIKE her and want her to do well. She's got some wacky Goren-ish traits too.... recognizing in a flash that musical instrument was from Australia not Africa. And you just KNEW that when they were arguing about who would go on camera that her "Not me" would be unsucessful. And Logan just HAD to give her grief "your face now represents the whole NYPD". And the way Ross called "Action" right before filming, it was funny. I hope the actors are having as much fun as I did viewing it.
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Post by nchristofaro02 on Nov 29, 2006 23:53:44 GMT -5
I thought that too about the Africa/Australia instrument (that Goren would immediately have caught that). I like that they are making Wheeler have some Goren-ish traits, just hoping they don't make her too Goren-ish by then end of the season. I really liked this episode, but that cutting off of the ear, while effective, made me kinda sick. I had to turn away from the tv. They made Willow's website real: www.freewillow17.com/check it out, there are videos on there from the show, plus some that weren't.
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Post by Sirenna on Nov 30, 2006 8:31:54 GMT -5
this was a really enjoyable episode - really relevant for today.
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Post by janetcatbird on Nov 30, 2006 11:07:25 GMT -5
Even knowing it was a fake ear, and even with it looking fake to me, it still icked me out. Yuck. And I could have stood one shot of it, but the continual closeups just made me squirm. And while Logan has never been a wimp, it definitely seemed out of character for him to take the tweezers from Rodgers and give it a good look. That's much more Goren-like. Logan should have rolled his eyes or made a face, but listened to the ME.
And I wish they'd let Rodgers keep her backbone on this show. She just rolls her eyes and lets the detectives play for a couple minutes when you know she'd take somebody's head off back on the Mothership.
--Catbird
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