angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Jul 14, 2009 16:06:44 GMT -5
I didn't think of it that way, tjara, but it's true. Eames is, not straightlaced in my mind, but a responsible woman. If she found herself pregnant and alone, she would most likely carry the baby to term and deal with the situation, instead of avioding it, unless she was vastly different then from the person she is now. To find out she was different back then would most likely force us to see her in a vastly different light. We might become even more sympathetic to her character or we might want to hang her by her thumbs. It's just too risky for the writers to introduce that in Eames's character.
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Post by maherjunkie on Jul 14, 2009 16:20:56 GMT -5
I could see her having a baby only because she seemed interested in doing so, but I could also see her saying this doesn't fit in with my life now and being no less responsible for doing so.
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Post by Moonbeam on Jul 14, 2009 16:27:11 GMT -5
So she picked up her laundry and placed it on the bed. Can't begin to imagine the discussion if she'd hung her clothes on a rod.
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Post by lovebug on Jul 14, 2009 16:33:55 GMT -5
So she picked up her laundry and placed it on the bed. Can't begin to imagine the discussion if she'd hung her clothes on a rod. You are so funny, I laughed out loud when I read what you wrote!
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Post by maherjunkie on Jul 14, 2009 16:36:47 GMT -5
She also could lose another red shirt, yet in reality lost her virginity years ago.
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Post by Moonbeam on Jul 14, 2009 17:21:38 GMT -5
Would that be around the time she was voted prom queen?
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Post by maherjunkie on Jul 14, 2009 17:24:48 GMT -5
Yeah, maybe she slept with the co-president of her ABBA fan club.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 14, 2009 19:15:03 GMT -5
To veer somewhat back on topic (is that me writing that? I'm the queen of off topic references (g))--I think Eames was originally written to be the by the book cop. That's changed over the seasons--as I think it should have--as she was exposed to Bobby and his methods. I think of straight laced as being kind of prudish, and Eames has never struck me as that.
Patcat
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Post by tjara on Jul 15, 2009 3:31:17 GMT -5
Oh, I didn't know "straight-laced" had a "prudish" connotation. That's not what I meant, I meant her to be "by the book" - and yes, she's changed, but not to be point where the writers let her lie about something like this.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 15, 2009 8:40:03 GMT -5
That could be my definition of straight laced.
I agree--Eames might lie to trick a suspect, but not about something like this to Bobby. Now, if he hadn't asked, she wouldn't have brought the subject up, but that's different.
Patcat
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Post by tjara on Jul 15, 2009 16:24:21 GMT -5
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Post by jeffan on Jul 15, 2009 16:52:22 GMT -5
I was already laughing Tjara -
great "goof spotting" as usual and thanks for posting.
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Irene
Rookie
"You blew your chance."
Posts: 48
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Post by Irene on Jul 15, 2009 18:38:31 GMT -5
hehehe...Irene, it appears more like you were begging for the opportunity to post that quote! I had neither intention nor desire aforethought to post that quote. But the opportunity presented itself rather too obviously to ignore. I'm gonna have to agree with the majority here. Sometimes a whale is a whale. There are similarities between two scripts of the same writer - Not a shocker. Sorry, but the two scripts were NOT written by the same writer. "The Third Horseman"........ Rene Balcer "Lady’s Man".....................Michael Chernuchin For a writer to subconsciously repeat style and “themes” (archetypes and character dynamics) within a body of his/her own work is common. For a writer to repeat the structure, story beats, plot points, archetypes, and character dynamics of ANOTHER WRITER’S script is either plagiarism (I'm joking), or more likely, an intentional evocation or allusion. Actually a common device used to deliberately evoke the themes or mythos of the original story, while telling a new story. Some of the more popular modern re-workings of stories include: examples from Shakespeare - Taming of the Shrew cf. Ten Things I Hate About You (dir. by Gil Junger)
- The Tempest cf. Forbidden Planet (dir. Fred Wilcox)
- King Lear cf. A Thousand Acres (dir. Jocelyn Moorehouse)
- MacBeth cf. A Double Life (dir. George Cukor)
- Romeo & Juliet cf. West Side Story (dir. Robert Wise/ Jerome Robbins)
Some examples of using a story template include: - Jane Austen’s Emma cf. Amy Heckerling’s “Clueless”
- The Pied Piper cf. Atom Egoyan’s “The Sweet Hereafter”
- Catcher in the Rye cf. Burr Steers' "Igby Goes Down"
- Alice In Wonderland cf. Martin Scorcese’s “After Hours”
Forgive my memory lapse, but in Season 1's "The Faithful," when she snarks about the priest wanting to convert Bobby, I never got the idea that she was "already converted" (i.e. already a Catholic). Did anyone else? Eames passes Goren’s desk. A large tome figures prominently.
Eames: “Liturgy Of The Catholic Church.” Are you thinking of converting? I think Father Capan would love to baptise you.
Goren: Too late. You're speaking to a lapsed altar boy.
Eames: I should've known. The disregard for authority, the fascination with bad behaviour... Let me explain with more detail why I don't believe Eames lied or had an abortion. I guess a writer could imply either (as you tried to point out), but then I know writers have to be careful. This is supposed to be a "mainstream" show, and usually the characters on such shows are crafted without any "extreme" views. I think you’re underestimating how far the show is willing to go. All L&O franchise shows have shown people with extreme views on a variety of controversial topics. The shows’ usual position is to show these people (extremists) in an unflattering light as extremism lacks practicality in the real world (and typically can be found in bed with hypocrisy as alas, people are human and therefore, flawed). If you were primarily speaking at to how far the show will go with lead characters, L&O’s Ray commits adultery, Serena was a lesbian, Lenny lied on behalf of his daughter, McCoy slept with his ADA, Dr. Olivet slept with a patient, SVU repeatedly makes it clear that Olivia is pro-choice, that Elliot has been unrealistically conservative when it comes to his daughters’ sex education and dating (don’t test me, I’m not a regular SVU watcher at this time)—my feeling is that Olivia would be more inclined to get the girls birth-control than try to keep them celibate. On Criminal Intent, I always took it that Goren and Eames (pre “Blind Spot”) were neither particularly religious nor were they regular churchgoers (but that both were raised Catholic and on occasion would indulge their parents and attend with them). Eames is the straight-laced, by the book character in this show. If they wrote her to lie or to have an abortion, it would take away her credibility, because the way her character is crafted, she wouldn't lie, and if she got pregnant, she would deal with the responsibility. As far as Eames being "by-the-book" or "straight-laced" or this lot of other casual descriptions: she HAS lied and covered Goren’s ass many times (cf. her statement in “Purgatory”). She respects the Law, but will bend or circumvent it when necessary in order to take down someone deserving of punishment. She is above all, ethical, and has a good moral compass. She (as someone stated earlier in this thread) holds hypocrites (of all types) in disdain, married cheaters in disgust, and people who harm children beyond mercy. She agreed with the woman in “The Third Horseman” who exercised her choice as she had other plans for her life than to set aside her dreams and start a family at that time in her life. And were she to have arrived at the same predicament, Eames would (IMO) have felt MORE responsibility toward her career and goals at that point in her life, NOT wanted to become a financial burden to her family (or anyone else), NOT wanted to embarrass her parents (or tarnish Joe’s memory, for that matter), AND let’s not forget, NOT wanted to continue her relationship with this guy whose personality was already volatile and getting worse as events ensued. Even Bobby's "abortion"-reply was "shady" and open to discussion. (And if I remember correctly from the "Third Horseman Thread" quite a few of us thought Bobby wasn't that much pro-choice as he seemed to in his reply, but that's another topic). Goren’s statement:
Life is full of uncertainty. People need to have options. Abortion has got to be one of those options. Clearly Goren is pro-CHOICE. AND Just because someone is pro-choice, doesn’t mean they are “for abortion.” No one is FOR abortion. Pat, I agree with you that the Law & Order franchise, from what I've seen, has always shown respect and deference when it comes to religious themes. Even when dealing with potentially volatile areas, all sides are equally presented. Agreed. Here’s the synopsis of Law & Order’s Season 1 Episode 12 “Life Choice” The ongoing war of words between abortion advocates and right-to-life activists literally explodes into violence when an abortion clinic is bombed, killing a woman inside the building. Putting his own pro-life sentiments aside, assistant D.A. Stone (Michael Moriarty) wastes no time mounting a case against the most likely suspect. Even so, Stone's pro-choice boss, D.A. Adam Schiff (Steven Hill), cannot help but wonder if his subordinate's personal feelings can be kept out of the courtroom -- especially with public opinion mounting against Stone's remaining on the case. A good example of how Law & Order can walk on both sides of a line and show regular characters with strong opinions of each persuasion. Goody: Creator Dick Wolf has stated (yes, on his blog) that this is his favorite Law & Order episode.
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Post by Moonbeam on Jul 15, 2009 21:30:52 GMT -5
If you're going to bring up goofs...there was a big glaring one in "Lady's Man." Goren mentions "charismatics" as being castrated young boys. I think the writers meant "castrati." I've done some research and I don't they meant charismatics.
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Jul 15, 2009 21:49:49 GMT -5
hehehe...Irene, it appears more like you were begging for the opportunity to post that quote! I had neither intention nor desire aforethought to post that quote. But the opportunity presented itself rather too obviously to ignore.... You are in trouble Irene. I won't tell you what ya did. You'll probably find out.
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