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Post by jeffan on Aug 10, 2009 14:35:44 GMT -5
I think that (at least some) fans are inferring -- from "Revolution" (which easily could have been a G/E story and would have been in past seasons) and from imperfect translations of VDO's recent interviews in France -- that Jeff Goldblum's Nichols is on course to take over for VDO's Goren. If that's so -- if it's the current plan -- then I believe it will kill the series. I love Goldblum and consider him a fantastic addition to the CI. But he isn't ever going to be accepted by the majority of fans as a substitution for VDO. N.B., Dick Wolf. AL I agree Annabelle - there is no substitute for Vincent just as there is no substitute for Jeff.
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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 10, 2009 14:38:25 GMT -5
As for Nichols' speech about not having children: That was an illumination of his own self-perceptions (and his driving forces) as forged by his relationship with his own (fictive) parents. Or would you say otherwise, dear DJ and PC? Yes - definitely. What I'd like someone to clarify is exactly how does Nichols perceive himself? From what I've seen in past episodes, Zach thinks rather highly of himself. Or at least his parents do. His "vessel" was filled with praise - too much so, perhaps? In this episode, he sounds as if he doesn't feel equipped to raise his own child. Does he believe that the over abundance of praise he received as a child backfired - and he is now an "Oops?" Did I understand him at the very end? Or am I way off base? Maybe he has more in common with screwed up Bobby than we thought?
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Aug 10, 2009 14:41:53 GMT -5
...I, personally really needed an explanation why Goren wasn't working on this vitally important case. I mean, come on....you have your best Detective, the guy who spent years in Germany, off site looking up street names?... DJ makes a good point here -- one on which I'd like expand. I think that (at least some) fans are inferring -- from "Revolution" (which easily could have been a G/E story and would have been in past seasons) and from imperfect translations of VDO's recent interviews in France -- that Jeff Goldblum's Nichols is on course to take over for VDO's Goren. If that's so -- if it's the current plan -- then I believe it will kill the series. I love Goldblum and consider him a fantastic addition to the CI. But he isn't ever going to be accepted by the majority of fans as a substitution for VDO. N.B., Dick Wolf. AL What does "N.B." mean?
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Post by jeffan on Aug 10, 2009 14:42:11 GMT -5
Edited to add: In its own way (IMO) "Revolution" was every bit as profound as "Want." Praise indeed Annabelle! I have yet to see this episode but will now watch it with a keener eye - if possible!
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Post by annabelleleigh on Aug 10, 2009 15:56:25 GMT -5
Note bene (pronounced nota bey-ney). It's Latin for "note well." Apologies for the obscurity. I was Latin champ of my Catholic high school. The notation "N.B." was once more broadly used, especially in academia. AL P.S. J-Fan -- I'd accept no substitutes for JG either. Can't wait to see them share a case. ;-)
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Post by annabelleleigh on Aug 10, 2009 16:03:21 GMT -5
As for Nichols' speech about not having children: That was an illumination of his own self-perceptions (and his driving forces) as forged by his relationship with his own (fictive) parents. Or would you say otherwise, dear DJ and PC? Yes - definitely. What I'd like someone to clarify is exactly how does Nichols perceive himself? From what I've seen in past episodes, Zach thinks rather highly of himself. Or at least his parents do. His "vessel" was filled with praise - too much so, perhaps? In this episode, he sounds as if he doesn't feel equipped to raise his own child. Does he believe that the over abundance of praise he received as a child backfired - and he is now an "Oops?" Did I understand him at the very end? Or am I way off base? Maybe he has more in common with screwed up Bobby than we thought? DJ, in my observation "an over abundance of praise" from one's parents often translates into impossible expectations -- just as robust public confidence frequently masks private doubts or low self-esteem. We know from Nichols' backstory that he's a med school drop-out. On some level he must feel that he failed his father, while, on another, he also perceives that his father failed him. I wouldn't say "he has more in common with Bobby..." To paraphrase Tolstoy, I'd say every dysfunctional family is dysfunctional in its own way. Nichols seems to have a complex psychological profile about which we're only just learning. On to more in Season 9! AL
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Post by lovebug on Aug 10, 2009 17:03:44 GMT -5
Does anyone know when the finale will be on again? We had a freak-storm and I lost power, so I didn't get to watch!
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Post by annabelleleigh on Aug 10, 2009 17:09:52 GMT -5
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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 10, 2009 17:30:04 GMT -5
Our so very astute Jeffan has informed me that the woman who plays the daughter is the real life new, younger gal pal of Jeff Goldblum.
So now we know how they met and fell in love? So sweet. ;D
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Post by Techguy on Aug 10, 2009 17:34:20 GMT -5
I see "Revolution" next on the USA schedule on August 13 at 12AM ET, and August 15 at 11PM ET.
CI on USA in August
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Post by quietfireca on Aug 10, 2009 18:03:20 GMT -5
Apologies for the obscurity. I was Latin champ of my Catholic high school. The notation "N.B." was once more broadly used, especially in academia. AL Bobby would be proud!
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Post by Techguy on Aug 10, 2009 18:40:33 GMT -5
Oh THAT JG gal pal, Tania Raymonde! No wonder the final scene was filled with so much...emotion. Good luck to both of them.
I haven't re-watched this episode yet but Nichols' final speech has stuck with me. As Annabelleleigh has already suggested, I also believe his "empty vessel" comments about children and how parents fill those vessels have everything to do with his own parents' expectations of him to follow in their footsteps in the medical profession. When he left medical school to join NYPD, he shattered those expectations and thus became estranged from--and angry at--the 2 people who brought him into being.
Nichols also might now feel just as lost to them as Birgit was when she was taken from her own biological parents and raised by their killer. Nichols feels the pain of his own estrangement and anger, but doesn't show those emotions openly except to excel as an NYPD detective, and even then had to take a 7 year hiatus in order to find himself, or at least re-assess how he was going to fill the empty vessel of his own personal and professional life. I believe now this quest led him to marry for the wrong reasons, to find someone who would fill the vessel he felt incapable or inadequate to fill himself. Despite his open displays of uber confidence and knowledge, I think he is still deeply wounded that his personal choices have been rejected by the 2 people whose opinion mean a great deal to him. In a stunning revelation, his "Oops" moment, he also is aware of how he could have turned out like Birgit if he had channeled his anger in an entirely different direction.
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Post by peterinmanhattan on Aug 10, 2009 19:47:09 GMT -5
Our so very astute Jeffan has informed me that the woman who plays the daughter is the real life new, younger gal pal of Jeff Goldblum. So now we know how they met and fell in love? So sweet. ;D DJ, she's 21 and he's 56! That's like me going out with my mother....ewww....images.... After hearing your analysis, I really would have liked a mentioning of Goren's whereabouts: it did feel oddly like they were trying to streamline Nichols and Eames into the new and solitary CI team. While it mightnot be a disastrous move in terms of characters and storylines it would be, especially disastrous in terms of fan support. We shall see. Still a fantastic episode!! Another option that just came to me. JG mentioned a romantic storyline for his character, perhaps their setting that up between him and Eames through their partnership. Although, I think the cute coffee scene with Nichols and Wheeler seems more flirtatious than any Nichols/Eames scene.
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Post by outerbankschick on Aug 10, 2009 21:09:27 GMT -5
Nichols/Eames ship...Oh my, Peter! LOL! I have to say, I think the Bobby/Alex shippers would stomp the Nichols/Eames shippers to dust! And I can say that because I am a bonafide "fence sitter". I neither ship nor am I anti-ship. I'm along for the ride!
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Post by outerbankschick on Aug 10, 2009 21:10:04 GMT -5
Awesome post, Techguy! ^5!
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