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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 11, 2009 6:46:41 GMT -5
Succinctly put, Techguy. I especially like (and agree) with this, your comment... "In a stunning revelation, his "Oops" moment, he also is aware of how he could have turned out like Birgit if he had channeled his anger in an entirely different direction. "Unlike the Goren we were presented with in earlier seasons, our Zack is very self aware. Too much so. Because of his parents professions, he knows where he's screwed up and why. That has to be difficult. I think Bobby believed he was relatively OK until he started to meltdown when his Mom became critically ill. Peter, I had to laugh at your comment about your mom. I'm 52 and my oldest son is 21. I can't fathom having any interest whatsoever in any of his friends. Ewww is right. They are little kids to me. So I personally don't get this attraction between Jeff and the young woman. But if they truly love each other, I wish them the best. Between you and me, I don't think it will last.
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Post by jeffan on Aug 11, 2009 7:28:30 GMT -5
LOL - I agree Donnajo - it's not a keeper!
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Post by jeffan on Aug 11, 2009 8:04:14 GMT -5
As Season 8 progressed, my expectations were somewhat diminishing as each episode was aired. Having just watched Revolution, they have taken an upswing for Season 9. I simply loved this episode. Ideologies abounded from the onset even though presented in a stereotypical fashion – Trotsky’s rimmed hat and leather coat to Che Guevara’s beret! I loved Ross’ line that an aged European hippie had crawled out of a cave – also Kasper’s response to Nichols – I do not recognize your authority! I chuckled at the early scene wherein the banker, when answering the detectives’ questions, had his worry beads in hand – is that the new executive toy? Oh, the enigma of the pen and the smashing of the glass. If you look closer, this is not a pen. It’s an apparatus that pierces and weakens reinforced glass and I’m not in the least surprised that an officer on the beat would carry such a tool. Another – oh – the reckless handling of suspected bomb - did not Goren in Season 2/3 open a suitcase which contained a suspected bomb against the advice of Eames? (Can’t remember the name of the episode but it was the first one – I think - after she had come back from maternity leave). This episode was exceptionally good at showing how ideologies can be twisted and distorted from the original concept. As Karl Marx famously stated – he would never make a good Marxist. Axel Kaspers copped out at the end by putting Birgit before the revolution - (Lenin must be turning in his grave) - this marginally weakened the storyline for me and the character’s credibility. OBC’s comment about the stunning cross visual that Zach and Birgit made after she had been shot and he had to hold her up because of the titling device, reminded me of the Christian ideology – and made me think, yes, Christianity and capitalism do fit nicely together! What a way to finish off these revolutionaries and the paradox considering the episode’s storyline. All kudos to the writers. I love Jeff’s “Oops” – gets me every time – who can forget the oops conversation between Jeff and Will Smith in Independence Day? What a great way to finish this episode – a ponderous Zach – can you imagine Bobby and Zach discussing that perennial question – nature or nurture – have we got the rest of our lives? Hey Annabelle – NBs still flourish in the academic world! Jefferaldo – I loved the soundtrack – the beat reminded me of The Internationale: www.youtube.com/watch?v=suVB3YGIUk0Wonderful stuff!
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Post by caitlen on Aug 11, 2009 8:08:10 GMT -5
quote: the woman who plays the daughter is the real life new, younger gal pal of Jeff Goldblum.
Tania Raymonde has also been on "Cold Case" as Frankie Rafferty, who was romantically involved with Scotty, ( Det Valens)
1. Pin Up Girl (23 November 2008) 2. Street Money (30 November 2008) 3. Wings (21 December 2008) 4. Lotto Fever (4 January 2009) 5. Breaking News (11 January 2009) 6. Witness Protection (15 February 2009) 7. Officer Down (15 March 2009) 8. The Long Blue Line (3 May 2009)
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Post by Patcat on Aug 11, 2009 8:20:56 GMT -5
Techguy--Whoa...my head is spining (but in a good way).
I think a crucial difference between Nichols and Goren is that Nichols at least had some kind of foundation that Goren never had.
I confess I'm fascinated by this crack in Nichols' confidence and Mr. Goldblum's portrayal of it, and I look forward to how its' dealth with next season.
Patcat
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Post by annabelleleigh on Aug 11, 2009 11:45:19 GMT -5
Excellent commentaries on the finale. Insightful stuff. So many members were inspired by the first-rate work on screen. Thank you all for the meaty reads. What a fitting end to Season 8.
AL
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Post by tjara on Aug 11, 2009 19:06:15 GMT -5
Actually, I should really be in bed right now. But I just finished watching "Revolution" and I have to get a few things off my chest. Let me say that I've only seen it once and maybe I missed a few things in this fast-paced episode. I liked it. It grabbed my attention and it was different from the usual stuff. It did seem a little "rushed", but not too badly. I have the distinct feeling that this was originally written for Goren/Eames. The whole Captain Berger story sounded like an old army connection for me. This doesn't mean I didn't like JG in it, but it means that I thought this would've been way better as a "threesome". So where did Zach learn to speak German... that wasn't just some "tourist" stuff that he was able to translate - that was tough stuff. It just doesn't seem right. And while we're on that topic: Axel Kaspers didn't ring true for me either... so he has been a revolutionary all his life - but all he's got are two followers? Sad thing! Don't tell me his daughter was more important - he'd not preach revolution then. And what was his revolution about anyway? Against capitalism, yes... but why? Why did he participate in the RAF in the 70s? The rest of the leftiest references seemed somewhat "stereotypical", but okay, that's what people know. I think I could've overlooked it if he had actually built an organization or a movement, but really, he had no followers. The RAF was well connected and well organized (otherwise, the leaders wouldn't have escaped so often)! And to my knowledge, they rarely carried out suicide bombings (these people were rather anti-religious and certainly didn't believe in an afterlife), but - as portrayed in part - kidnappings and car bombings. Ulrieke Meinhoff and Andreas Baader didn't really die for the cause, or let's say it like that - they didn't die "in action". They killed themselves in prison. It seems the background for Zach has been changed. I recall at least one early interview in which JG was said he has a daughter. Which again leads me to believe that these lines were originally written for Goren. LOL ;-) Acutally, it's "Frau Eames". "Fräulein" is outdated and not used anymore because feminists thought it was "diminutive". The last two filmed were "All in" and "Family Values". "Lady's Man" was third to last. Not to be overly nitpicky, but it's "nota bene!" I knew she looked familiar ;D More when I can get some clearer thoughts on this.
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Post by Patcat on Aug 11, 2009 19:38:08 GMT -5
I thought the German revolutionary was not atypical of some Sixties radicals who preached revolution but were appallingly sexist in some of their ideas regarding their personal relationships.
I'd appreciate the perspective of our European members on the Baader Meinhoff gang. I thought this episode gave a good condensed account of what I know about them.
Patcat
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Post by jeffan on Aug 12, 2009 3:45:22 GMT -5
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Post by jeffan on Aug 12, 2009 4:18:54 GMT -5
It seems the background for Zach has been changed. I recall at least one early interview in which JG was said he has a daughter. The original show-runner for the N/W was replaced so it was not a surprise to me that Zach no longer had a daughter. Nevertheless, if I recall correctly from an earlier episode, the original idea that the character is divorced remains the same.
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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 12, 2009 6:32:24 GMT -5
I admit to knowing very little about the radical groups mentioned in this episode. However, Alex Kaspar's lack of followers seemed logical to me. He had just re-emerged after years of hiding. Notorious in the 70's & 80's as leader of a German radical group. Given more time (and without the brilliant Nichols on the case) and given the current times, I believe he would have gathered a good following. Many people are out of work and want someone to blame. I was also OK with Zach's knowledge of German. He has been away for eight years. He must have spent several years in Germany. Similar to Goren, who spent a few of his army years in Germany. I see their knowledge of reading & speaking German as being about the same. BTW Jeffan - thank you for the info on the apparatus that breaks auto glass! Excellent find. And I enjoyed your entire, very insightful post.
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Post by ragincajun on Aug 12, 2009 12:21:03 GMT -5
Wasn't the FBI agent Actress-Deirdre Lovejoy who played Penny Halliwell, in Malignant, who was deluting the Cancer drugs to give money to the church? Also if you need to know where Bobby was, he left Tennesse and traveled down to Louisiana to watch this trial, to see how Justice is handled in Louisiana. This guy got 50 years on a plea bargin. Lately Louisiana has been reported doing some really stupid things in the media, but don't come down here and expect to get away with anything. Oh and we do have the death penalty. Rapist gets 50 yrs
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Post by ragincajun on Aug 12, 2009 12:22:27 GMT -5
quote: the woman who plays the daughter is the real life new, younger gal pal of Jeff Goldblum. Tania Raymonde has also been on "Cold Case" as Frankie Rafferty, who was romantically involved with Scotty, ( Det Valens) 1. Pin Up Girl (23 November 2008) 2. Street Money (30 November 2008) 3. Wings (21 December 2008) 4. Lotto Fever (4 January 2009) 5. Breaking News (11 January 2009) 6. Witness Protection (15 February 2009) 7. Officer Down (15 March 2009) 8. The Long Blue Line (3 May 2009) And as we have seen in Hollywood, these May/December Romances usually are over by the time the new season starts.
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Post by tjara on Aug 12, 2009 13:00:06 GMT -5
Wikipedia has many articles about the RAF, German Autumn, Andreas Baader & Ulrieke Meinhoff. Patcat, I thought we heard more about WHAT happened back then, than about WHY it happened. The RAF itself can be viewed as a three Generations of revolutionaries (From the early 70s to the mid-80s), with little personnel continutiy and also changing ideas (Generation two and three were more radical). The original movement grew out of the lefties movement of the 60s, and many of the members were intellectuals or had higher education (Andreas Baader is one exception, but anyway). A disatisfaction with imperialism, capitalism and their parents' unwillingness to confront their Nazi-past. They were communist "city guerillos" - their heroes were the leftiest movements of South America during the 1960s. As communists, they were anti-religious and sympathized with other leftiest movements, most notably the Red Brigades in Italy and the PLO, who also trained them (Remember that the PLO is a secular movement, too). They saw themselves as part of a bigger revolution and tried to achieve their goals through kidnappings (and murders), car bombings and robbings banks. It's estimated that the RAF had around 80 members and maybe 300 supporters. The RAF lost lots of support after killing people they kidnapped. To this day, 7 (alleged) members of the RAF have never been caught. Of those that were imprisoned and didn't kill themselves, most have been released in the last 15 years. As of 1998, the RAF has officially dissolved, but even in this letter, they hailed to the eternal revolution. Which brings me back to this: He wasn't a leader but a member of the group, if we go with "Baader-Meinhoff Gang" as they say, that means of the first generation. He fled to the States in 1986, which seems pretty late to me, but okay, creative license. However, if he'd follow the footsteps of his idols like El Che, he'd be an "eternal revolutionary" - and that's why I don't understand why he didn't have any followers. In times like these it would've been fairly easy to recruit a few people, and it would be the logical thing to do if you want to spark a revolution. That's how these organizations worked - tight discipline, well connected, well organized. I have no trouble with Zach knowing German (however, I still think this was originally written as a G/E ep), but he knew a lot. We've never heard Goren go beyond the basics, but Zach was reading a formal report and a newspaper article. That's beyond basic. Btw. JG has lovely pronounciation. Well done. However, can they finally get someone who actually speaks German to correct their sentences? In some cases, it looks like they used Google to translate
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Post by Techguy on Aug 12, 2009 13:27:32 GMT -5
BTW Jeffan - thank you for the info on the apparatus that breaks auto glass! Excellent find. And I enjoyed your entire, very insightful post. Ditto from me too. The pen/device to break glass was the one plot point that troubled me. Thanks for clearing up the mystery.
I don't know if this episode was originally written for G/E. I thought Nichols' familiarity with German and Captain Berger were self-contained backstory elements specific to Nichols. I'd like to know more about this German connection--could it be somehow related to Nichols' 7 year hiatus from NYPD?
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