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Post by Patcat on Feb 15, 2005 0:17:39 GMT -5
D, KISS OF SPIDER WOMAN and Jimmy--wow, you're right! (This is such a hip show (g)) I found Jimmy and his Mom both funny and terrifying.
The guards, it strikes me, were extremely stupid at the end. Goren's office knows he and Eames are investigating the guardsl--their paperwork is still at their office. Good grief, Carver is at the prison gate with a warrant. If anything happened to Goren, Logan, and the nurse, the guards would be the focus of the investigation, even if the blame was set on the prisoners.
Patcat
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Post by KATIE on Feb 15, 2005 9:58:20 GMT -5
Well you guys write sooo much and love reading It, I would just be repeating everything only In my words. So all up Logan reminded me of when I eat too many peas, oops soory but he seemed to just be like Oh well I didnt have anything else on today, and to me seemed smartie pants when with Goren. That scene when he gave back Gorens card, what did he think, he left IT for a date Might be me but It was either Logan or the writers, he just made his first appearence In CI and acted like Im cummfy here, you wont be missed. Dont think Eames was Impressed either, and the whole girfriend/ boyfriend thing, was that bad acting or the relationship very weak . Now for the prison scene,I was worried that the nurse wasnt going to say anything, but at least Logan edged her on with Goren, otherwise without Gorens passive talking It might have got ugly. Goren and Logan didnt look too sure of themselves or was that me?? Lastly did anyone see my Q about AZ? just wondered on your thoughts where he ran to," If any." Katie
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Post by Metella on Feb 15, 2005 10:45:16 GMT -5
They did mention that Logan had only been dating this girl for 5 or 6 months .... to call into question her character since Logan had not known her that long. Gave Logan a chance to wonder; but not much, he was loyal. I also liked the way he stood in front of her when they were trapped - he was up enough to give a go at the fight - back enough to try to shield her.
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Post by Marie on Feb 15, 2005 11:10:31 GMT -5
I don't think the writers could have brought the patriot act, police state tactics issue more to the forefront without getting way too disturbing. It wouldn't do any good anyway, the main characters, guest stars etc would still be the forefront of what fans discuss -- or even SEE. Yes, they sofballed the issue a bit by not making reference to sanctioned methods of torture. They kept it to unnofficial illegal torture. But some things are too big or horrible to really fit into one's mind at first. Or one hour drama. JMS was frustrated by that when he wrote a similar script a few years before 9-11. No one wanted to discuss the issue with him, only actors, similar movies, plays etc. People read or hear about the patriot act and some of the abuses of power on US military posts or here in the US and a. can't relate to what might be happening b. won't believe it could possibly happen or worse: c. think its justified. (yes, such people exist in States, I have been running into them for 30 years) That is why I liked this episode, it didn't try to do the impossible, instead if focused on negative aspects of what harm it caused in the perpetrators. Lack of sleep, loss of previous ambition, guilt, fear, lying to loved ones, desperate to get out but not sure how (am I the only one that thinks the nurse WANTED Logan to find that postcard?) As well as the fear and helplesness of the surviving victims. Aziz was out, but not free. Sorry, putting away soapbox now. Documentaries on PBS Frontline, the Passionate Eye on CBC Newsworld, BBC World News, along with various foreign newspapers online... all serve to inform & educate me about what's happening outside my immediate day-to-day reality. So when I sit down to watch a tv show featuring fictional characters, I'm ultimately looking to be entertained more than anything else. Doesn't mean they can't address a serious topic or issue in the process; gosh no. But again, and just speaking for myself, that's not why I'm tuning in each week. If anything, it's because I'm already doing the above that I like to balance it out with something less uber-serious. Example: the Simpsons, Masterpiece Theatre, repeats of Seinfield, episodes of Criminal Intent, Frontline, America's Next Top Model - a nice mix. No steady diet of just one thing, in particular. And each one is judged subjectively by how well I thought they'd managed to either inform or entertain or amuse me, etc. But at least they tried to address a serious topic, so I certainly don't fault the writers for attempting it. I just didn't end up enjoying this particular episode of CI as much as, say, season 4 ep 7 "Magnificat" or some such. That's all.
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Post by Greeble on Feb 15, 2005 11:21:06 GMT -5
Marie
You do better than I do. I prefer NO issues being raised in my fluff! ;D Thats why I felt kinda bushwhacked.
So, did nurse want Logan to find the postcard?
Jen
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Post by kopache on Feb 15, 2005 11:47:44 GMT -5
Some great analyses of this episode My first attempt at a review on here. A few thoughts to add into the smelting pot. I really enjoyed this episode. Great writing and acting - but that's only to be expected from this show. I thought the Logan character worked great. I'm kind of unbiased I guess because I have never seen Chris Noth on Law and Order, so knew little about his character, apart from what I've read here. I actually really liked the interaction between him and Goren. It was great to see them circle round each other - metaphorically speaking - trying to weigh the other one up. Very different characters obviously and a whole bunch of testosterone to have in one room. I know Noth is older than Vincent and I'm assuming also that of their characters Logan is older. I did sense that Goren became almost the younger brother here. It was subtext only, very subtle. But Logan had the swagger and Goren was much less outspoken, more uncertain, almost shy and reserved around Logan than I've ever noticed him be in his interactions with other characters. Interesting given the discussions on here about Goren having an older brother.... I liked Logan tossing the psychology book. But then he goes back into Deakins office where the three of them 'play' him. His smile at the end of that scene to me says that Logan knows absolutely he's been played but it works in his favour anyway, so he'll go along with it. In the apartment with the first prison guard they try to persuade to own up Logan actually shows he's learning how Goren and Eames work. The prison guard says he's going dancing. Goren comments "in those boots" and Noth notices the snappy dancing shows. Also showing he's learning to give Goren's methods some credit. He disses Goren's theories of secret prisoners at the aquarium place and stomps off. But he comes back later. Goren has been proved right. I sense a new respect after this point in the script, albeit a grudging one that he would never vocalise. And of course if Goren ever had to prove his methods to Logan he did so without question in that fantastic final showdown, picking off the guards one by one. A violent confrontation would not have got them out safely. Goren's way, saved the day. And Logan could easily have taken a few swipes at the last guard once the danger was over but he defered to Goren and let justice be the answer. Fro m what I've read of his character's history this seems like character development to me....small but important for his reintroduction to the frontline of the NYPD next season. After watching this I think I'll enjoy watching Logan next season, especially teamed up with a strong, independent female partner, who uses similiar methods to Goren. Should be a very sparky relationship! And I actually think it'll be a shame if Goren and Logan never get to work any scenes together - it would be great to watch them butt heads once in a while. They'll never be pals but I bet both would end up respecting the other but hiding this under some nice witty banter. Perhaps if they don't ever appear in the same episode there might still be some texture woven in, leaving spikey notes or sarcy 'gifts' on each other desks. Or dropping little comments to their respective partners. As to the story behind this episode....I thought it raised some great issues. Respect to Marie - love your posts btw! - for taking an interest in issues like this and watching docu's and the news, but there are lots of people out there who never watch anything but fictional TV and for them shows like CI can highlight issues that they would never even have thought about before. We have similar imprisonment without trial or representation legislation over here and it really sucks. Kudos to CI for dealing with an issue that is pretty damn sensitive and coming out on the side of freedom and justice for all ;D
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Post by Patcat on Feb 15, 2005 12:12:15 GMT -5
STRESS POSITION will be rerun tonight at 8 on NBC.
And the USA cable channel will rerun MIS-LABELED at 11.
And HOUSE (new episode) is on Fox at 9.
Don't anyone try to reach me tonight!
Patcat
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Post by Techguy on Feb 15, 2005 14:02:15 GMT -5
Perhaps if they don't ever appear in the same episode there might still be some texture woven in, leaving spikey notes or sarcy 'gifts' on each other desks. Detectives Goren and Logan doing the Nelda thing with each other? On a regular routine basis? Now that's a scary thought. Creative and unique, yes. But still very very scary.
Maybe the CI writers also plan to have Chocolate Jimmy come back in a recurring role too.
Who says the CI bigwigs aren't looking over their shoulders at "Desperate Housewives"?
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Post by NikkiGreen on Feb 15, 2005 15:36:13 GMT -5
STRESS POSITION will be rerun tonight at 8 on NBC. And HOUSE (new episode) is on Fox at 9. Don't anyone try to reach me tonight! I'm with you on that, Patcat. I certainly didn't get to see the episode on Sunday, so I'd better not get disturbed today. And House looks quite promising. Trying to get off of the Vicadin, eh?! Should be awesome.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Feb 15, 2005 16:59:04 GMT -5
Nicolemarie, you're not the only one annoyed. I found Logan to be everything I don't like about other cop shows. The scene at Goren's desk showed his contempt for Goren and his methods, the main reason LOCI is the only show I never miss. I have never seen Logan in the old Law and Order shows, but he definitely wasn't needed in this episode. You took the words right out of my mouth! I like very few other cop shows because they don't actually use their brains to solve a case, they bully suspects for information. I saw Logan on L&O, the mothership. He was one of those kinda cops. And you are right about Logan's disregard for Goren and Eames' methods: that is the #1 thing that bugged me about Logan even though I expected it because he is not a cerebral cop. MCS cop Logan is not! hehehe Modified because of my horrific spelling!
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Feb 15, 2005 17:22:05 GMT -5
I didn't think too much on Chocolate Jimmy when first watching the ep. Not until I watched my tape, did I truly grasp the twistedness of his and his mom's relationship. I thought the actor who protrayed Jimmy was great -- he was a little scary to watch, but after seeing his mom *shutter*, one need not wonder why he was so adament about confessing to everything. Anything to show her what was what. He didn't "camp-up" the gay angle either, not like Jack from "Will and Grace", though there was a moment, when Jimmy was eye-balling Goren that kinda made me go "whoa there sister..." *grin* I had no doubt Logan would shield the nurse, he's one to protect the damsel. Though, I did like how she was able to steel herself to give the gory details of the prisoner abuse. Something, for which, I am glad we didn't see more of...we can get enough of that kind of dehumanization on MSNBC from the trials of Abu Gharib. I don't think Logan will accept the "Goren-show", though he may get a chuckle out of it. And after seeing him toss Goren's psychopathy of the criminal mind book aside, I guess thats a small reason why (other than lightening the workload) Logan won't work in the same cases as Goren and Eames next season. Logan simply doesn't get Goren, and hasn't the patience to even try.
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Post by michael on Feb 15, 2005 17:34:04 GMT -5
And to make matters worse, they're re-showing "Stress Position" tonight on NBC. According to my calendar, there was a Season 2 episode planned for tonight (the season I never saw!), but why rerun an episode shown only a couple of days ago?
I'm not totally against this episode with Logan, but Goren and Eames have enough "foils" to deal with from the criminal aspect without clashing them against a cop who prefers intimidation and confrontation to good old- fashioned deduction.
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Post by Techguy on Feb 15, 2005 17:52:43 GMT -5
...they're re-showing "Stress Position" tonight on NBC...why rerun an episode shown only a couple of days ago? Two reasons I can think of: 1) February is a sweeps month, and NBC figures a CI rerun would do better in the ratings than most of their other programming in tonight's time slot 2) Some viewers missed the original showing of SP by choosing to watch the Grammy awards or "Desperate Housewives" instead. NBC is hoping to get those viewers (as well as the dedicated rerun fans) by showing SP soon after its initial showing to exploit the newness of the episode as well as the Chris Noth hype.
A rerun of SP might better serve NBC's purposes even more than a Season 2 rerun.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Feb 15, 2005 18:23:46 GMT -5
NBC is re-running "Stress Position" to torture us! (Or at least just me! hehehehe) I'm kidding!
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Post by NikkiGreen on Feb 15, 2005 18:29:42 GMT -5
Poor Nicolemarie!
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