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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 20, 2007 10:54:44 GMT -5
A few more recent observations that I previously missed. I guess they are more in the line of inconsistencies : 1. When Goren & Jo are watching Ross & Declan in interrogation. Goren tells Jo not to worry, that her Dad was cleared from being the killer because none of the hairs found in the bindings & gags matched his. So did they find Jo's hairs? Her DNA would be in the system from her stint at Quantico. Besides, NOT finding someone's hair doesn't clear them, since it just means that their hair didn't get caught in the bindings. Jo's such a pro, she should have doubted this comment. 2. The very last scene, through the window watching Goren & Eames in the hospital room together. The implication is that he goes there that same night, immediately after Jo's arrest, to tell Eames. If so, why is he wearing the same outfit (dark jacket, white shirt) he had on in the first scene with her in the hospital room, and not the light grey suit? Obviously all those scenes were taped at the same time, with Goren wearing that dark jacket. Is it October 4th yet? I really need some new CI to talk about!!
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BeachBoy
Silver Shield Investigator
Still Cruisin' After All Of These Years ...
Posts: 146
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Post by BeachBoy on Aug 30, 2007 18:19:55 GMT -5
Finally on german TV I got the chance to see this ep and it was very interesting. Odd but I liked it. Better then any Episode from Season 5, in my opinion. A year ago I said that VDO looked awful but now, after watching Season 5, my opinion is that he looks much better.
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Post by deathroe on Aug 30, 2007 18:48:42 GMT -5
They both look a lot healthier, I think. It makes one happy.
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Post by chyochyo on Aug 30, 2007 21:46:13 GMT -5
Hey-la, at last I have replaced my valiant, slain computer. The first thing I did was feed my addiction by visiting thereelvincentdonofrio site, and downloading clips of season six epidoes. The clip for "Blidspot" is the moment when Bobby is walking outside, talking with Declan, and all of a sudden police officers come swarming out of nowhere, and we see a shot from above of Bobby (wisely) and Declan face down on the ground--not my favorite moment in the episode, but the moments when Goren is on the ground, distinctly alarmed, and clearly (if momentarily) on the wrong side of the law do foreshadow the more fallible, human Goren of season six. To be honest, I thoroughly enjoyed season six, exactly because it's that Goren we get to see. I am a late-comer to the series and only started watching around season three--actually bought te season one dvd along with the computer. I can see that in season one the series is striving to introduce Goren an interesting character, the brilliant quirky Goren, the focal point of the series. It also seems to me that in season one especially the writers go out of their way to establish his moral rectitude and his sensitivity--he makes a point of thanking a prostitute when she gives him information, etc. Well, now that I've see them in full (no cable but I may have to bite the bullet before October) I can say that the season one episodes have a surface tension and sparkle that's missing later in the series, but all the same I think I would have gotten tired of watching those "Goren's very smart" and "Goren is exceptionally kind" winks that ultimately would not have told us anything new or useful. I really do like what they've done with this past season, which is show us, yes, a man of intelligence and character, but also a realistic and fallible person, one who might actually exist. It's much more interesting--I might , for example, have looked forward to Sunday nights, but I never lost sleep over an episode until season six. OR Maybe it's time to just shelve the dvd's for a while, put on some sunscreen, and get out more.
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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 31, 2007 6:55:53 GMT -5
chyochyo, I really liked reading your view of the shows evolution and of Goren..... refreshing observations. You are so right about how this season gave us episodes to actually lose sleep over. In the past, no matter what befell Goren, you somehow knew that he would return whole the next episode. For example, even in the Nelda episode, as emotionally torn as I believe he was, there was no doubt that we would see him back at 1PP reasonably together. Not so after The War At Home, Siren Call & especially Endgame. How many of us couldn't get that picture of a devastated & broken Goren out of our heads? So keep on posting your thoughts!
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Post by Sirenna on Aug 31, 2007 9:41:53 GMT -5
Yes, I think you're right on the money about season one being an introduction to the detective. I enjoyed reading your thoughts. I'm glad you're back chyochyo!
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Nov 21, 2008 6:12:09 GMT -5
Quietfire has done a video on this incredible epi. Her unique style reveals nuances in Goren's and Eames' expressions, proving once again how wonderfully D'Onofrio and Erbe (and Quietfire!) do their jobs and how well LOCI episodes stand up to many a repeat viewing. Enjoy! www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYclPxk6RoU
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Post by DonnaJo on Nov 21, 2008 11:42:49 GMT -5
That was fantastic! ;D Just beautiful........the slo mo expressions of both Bobby & Alex are to die for. I never realized how hurt Eames was until I saw this video. Her wrists were really bloody. She must have been in so much pain. Poor baby.
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Post by quietfireca on Nov 21, 2008 18:49:25 GMT -5
Quietfire has done a video on this incredible epi. Her unique style reveals nuances in Goren's and Eames' expressions, proving once again how wonderfully D'Onofrio and Erbe (and Quietfire!) do their jobs and how well LOCI episodes stand up to many a repeat viewing. Enjoy! www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYclPxk6RoU Thanks Susan and Donna! As soon as I heard the song I knew I had to use it. I like to choose clips where they don't speak (doesn't always work) and that's why we notice the expressions more. And poor Eames, hanging from that hook for how many hours? and then climbing the wall. Atta girl!!! But when I heard the lyrics I just need to know whatever has happened, The truth will free my soul.I thought, oh my, that's Robert Goren. He has been paying the price for his search for the truth at all costs since this episode. I think of the sacrifice Goren made in Frame by allowing Declan to tear him down so he could get to the truth. He allowed Declan to expose his soul while Ross and Alex and whoever else was in that observation room watched. There is a hero.
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Post by outerbankschick on Nov 21, 2008 21:37:07 GMT -5
OMG! That one gave me chills. Amazing!
Bobby has always been the hero. He is the Dark Knight, willing to be hated and hunted for the good of all, for the sake of the truth and the pursuit of justice. They can call him a rat, they can call him a whack job, they can shut him out of "The Boys Club".
But they can never change the heart of him. The human, damaged, true heart that makes him the hero to begin with.
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Post by hargiteam42 on Dec 1, 2008 11:05:36 GMT -5
Is it bad that every times I see this epi, I get all teary-eyed? Seriously... I was watching an interview with Erbe and she said that it was hard for her family to see her that way. I know how I felt when I saw it, I can only imagine what they fely... but to get back on topic...
A) I love, love, LOVE quietfire's videos!! B) I didn't catch the whole jacket thing until Donna pointed that out. So now I will have to go and watch it again. (Uhm pass the tissues please.)
And Yea, Jo, having lived with someone who profiled criminals for so long wouldn't have fallen for that one. She's been around it for so long and that doens't really make any sense.
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Post by outerbankschick on Dec 19, 2008 0:11:28 GMT -5
Listening to CI on my iPod again! And something struck me about Jo. She is very distinctly, and very coldly, calculating and sociopathic in her crimes. She picks the Ambassador's daughter to draw attention to the crime and get it noticed. Then she murders her roommate to draw herself into the investigation, which she knows will draw Declan in. Then, when the attention is taken from her and put onto Bobby, she kidnaps Alex and plans to kill her and frame Declan, which will then bring the attention back to her once again. Every move she made was designed for maximum attention of self with no regard for anything, or anyone else. And the glee on her face when she tells Bobby that once he was on the case, that was when she decided to kill Eames and frame Declan. Eeek! He looks appropriately horrified at her frankness, and also stunned, as though it was in that one moment when he realized how sociopathic she actually was. Which leads me to "Frame" and why we were left thinking that Jo was so unstable and psychotic that she wasn't even allowed visitors until psyche services "cleared" her. It doesn't gel with what we saw in "Blind Spot". Jo Gage was "crazy" as in "evil", not "crazy" as in "go-mad-and-bite-out-your-tongue-to-avoid-talking-to-your-father -who-is-the-one-person-you-most-wanted-attention-from-in-the-first-place"! Just a random thought I plucked from my head today.
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Post by Patcat on Dec 19, 2008 8:47:08 GMT -5
Perhaps Jo thought all the attention might go to Declan if she spoke to him? Or perhaps Declan refused to see Jo, and she bit her tongue to try to get his attention? (I doubt this scenario, as I can't imagine Declan not wanting to interview her.) Or perhaps Jo's lawyer and doctors refused to let her see Declan? (If I were her lawyer or psychiatrist, I don't think I'd want her father anywhere near her.) All of these are thoughts off the top of my head in response to some very good questions.
By the way, I love Bobby's reaction in FRAME when he discovers Declan hasn't been seeing Jo, and later, when Declan tries to use the "poor single father" routine on him. He's angry, incredulous and hurt, and Mr. D'Onofrio conveys all of that.
Patcat
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Post by hargiteam42 on Dec 23, 2008 23:07:34 GMT -5
Listening to CI on my iPod again! And something struck me about Jo. She is very distinctly, and very coldly, calculating and sociopathic in her crimes. She picks the Ambassador's daughter to draw attention to the crime and get it noticed. Then she murders her roommate to draw herself into the investigation, which she knows will draw Declan in. Then, when the attention is taken from her and put onto Bobby, she kidnaps Alex and plans to kill her and frame Declan, which will then bring the attention back to her once again. Every move she made was designed for maximum attention of self with no regard for anything, or anyone else. And the glee on her face when she tells Bobby that once he was on the case, that was when she decided to kill Eames and frame Declan. Eeek! He looks appropriately horrified at her frankness, and also stunned, as though it was in that one moment when he realized how sociopathic she actually was. Which leads me to "Frame" and why we were left thinking that Jo was so unstable and psychotic that she wasn't even allowed visitors until psyche services "cleared" her. It doesn't gel with what we saw in "Blind Spot". Jo Gage was "crazy" as in "evil", not "crazy" as in "go-mad-and-bite-out-your-tongue-to-avoid-talking-to-your-father -who-is-the-one-person-you-most-wanted-attention-from-in-the-first-place"! Just a random thought I plucked from my head today. Yea. I was wondering that myself. Why did she bite her tongue off? Besides, didn't she tell Bobby that the reason she was doing this was so that Declan would pay attention to her? And if he was in there talking to her, why did she do that? I would really like it if that was explained a little better.
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Post by prodigaltwit on Dec 24, 2008 7:44:26 GMT -5
Sympathy, disbelief, horrified, guilt; it was amazing to see Vincent switch from one to the other and mince them altogether with a simple shift of the eyes, twitching of the lips and raising of eyebrows in the interrogation scene in the end.
But I think it was when he was looking at Declan through the one-way glass that said the most. That look just summed up everything he was feeling, all churning and eating him up inside.
Kudos to Martha Plimpton, she's an amazing actress. I saw her in SVU and almost brought tears. As Jo Gage, she may have been a sociopath, but it was difficult not to feel sympathy for her as the neglected woman who reached out to her father the only way she knew how.
Vincent did his part, but I think the scene would've fell short with someone else as Jo.
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