|
Post by diablodeblanco on Dec 24, 2008 9:08:48 GMT -5
I keep going back to Jo biting her tongue off in a later episode. I keep going back to the "why" of it. I think perhaps she did it because when her father did come to see and talk with her, it wasn't anything like she had expected or wanted. Declan showed up to profile her....to dissect and probe. Not to talk with her as a father does to his troubled child. His attentions were completely clinical....nothing fatherly or with emotion attached. I think if Declan had even yelled at Jo for her actions, she would have preferred that to his probable emotionally detached interview (he had a female serial killer to examine). Maybe when she saw how he was relating to her she decided to keep from him the only thing he wanted from her, the only reason he was there......her information. Maybe it was an act of rebellion or an act of finality. Her pathetic attempt at ridding herself of him when he made her feel like a specimen and not as a daughter as she had hoped. He wasn't giving her the only thing she wanted from him so she wouldn't give him the only thing he wanted from her.
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Dec 24, 2008 10:43:33 GMT -5
A good point diablodeblanco, but I got the sense Declan hadn't seen Jo at all since she was arrested. I could be wrong about that, and if he had seen her, your analysis makes a lot of sense.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Dec 24, 2008 11:38:43 GMT -5
I think you're right Patcat. I got the feeling he or anyone other than a doctor had had contact with Jo. And when he was allowed to finally see her, instead of the father/daughter type visit that Jo was hoping for, she got the profiler/serial killer interview. Maybe she finally saw all the evil things she had done had been for naught and conscience and disappointment pushed her over the edge to cut her tongue out.
|
|
|
Post by DonnaJo on Dec 25, 2008 8:59:01 GMT -5
I agree with both of you. ;D
All of it - the kidnapping, the torture, the murders, the dumping - was for Daddy's attentions. First, so they could discuss Sebastian together like they used to, and after that, so Declan would give Jo hours of undivided attention as he profiled her.
Jo attained neither. I can imagine her in her cell waiting for her father to come, waiting hours, than days, that weeks, than years. All the while her mind imagining what he would say, both good & bad. I think that when she finally hears that he is coming, she is so obsessed with the idea that she deal with it, goes batshit, & swallows her tongue in a fit.
Which then makes Declan's assertion in "Frame" about how he always tried his best with Jo, like Bobby did with his family, all the more hypocritical.
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Dec 26, 2008 0:17:25 GMT -5
Do you think that Bobby held an idealized view of Declan at some point? When they first met, Bobby might have seen Declan as a brilliant man trying to raise a daughter by himself. Even before the events in BLIND SPOT, I suspect Bobby's view of Declan was a much more jaundiced one. By FRAME, Bobby knows that as far as his daughter is concerned, Declan is a fraud. I wonder if the Sebastien case started the rift between Declan and Bobby?
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by hargiteam42 on Dec 28, 2008 0:46:35 GMT -5
^^ I think it may very well have started breaking them apart. Remeber what he told Ross? He hadn't seen Declan in 10 years, maybe that case was why they stopped seeing each other. And diablodeblanco makes a very valid point as to why Jo bit her tongue off. And Patcat, that also makes sense as well. That he hadn't seen her. If he had, she might have done that sooner.
|
|
|
Post by prodigaltwit on Dec 28, 2008 9:20:16 GMT -5
I agree with diablodeblanco about why Jo bit her tongue off, it makes sense. But without the show telling us, we're really left to guess and make conclusions on what little info they give us....quite simply, Jo going into a coma was a plot device to explain why Declan went off the deep end, why did she bite her tongue off? I don't know.
Concerning Jo, I think Goren also feels partly responsible for Jo's problems. I mean Declan took Goren under his wing and mentored him, in a way he became the son or the child that Declan never had.
Jo probably felt she had to assimilate herself into Declan's world to form a father-daughter bond with him. But whether she was resistant to his profile world, or just didn't have the talent for it, Dec never really got close to her, she became like a temporary substitute....until Dec found Goren, a man who had the talent and the enthusiasm for profiling and so he was able to form a closer bond with Goren and kind of neglected Jo. And Goren himself was so caught up in Dec's world he never really noticed that Jo was being left out.
Yeah, I think 'Sebastian' drifted Goren and Dec apart, but I think it's because Dec became so obsessed with Sebastian and wanting to catch the guy that he distanced himself emotionally from everyone and maybe Goren's jaundice comes from feeling like he was abandoned again by a surrogate father of sorts.
|
|
|
Post by DonnaJo on Dec 28, 2008 9:57:35 GMT -5
Good reminder. prodicaltwit, about Declan not only obsessing about Sebastian years ago to the point of distancing, but to the point of having a nervous breakdown and being committed.
I get the impression that it was then that Goren & Gage parted ways. With Gage being ill and confined to a mental hospital, Goren lost his mentor. Timewise, it seems as if this coincides with Goren's discharge from the Army.
|
|
|
Post by maherjunkie on Dec 28, 2008 14:25:45 GMT -5
Don't laugh at me, but is it possible Jo was Sebastian, at least part of the time when she realized what good gig it would be to get her father's attention?
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Dec 28, 2008 22:05:21 GMT -5
Well, Jo was clearly imitating Sebastian to get her father's attention. And while there's nothing I can put my finger on, I got the sense that Declan did something to force Sebastian underground--that he misinterpreted evidence or went after the wrong person or something along those lines. I didn't get a sense that he had a breakdown at that time. And perhaps I have too severe a view of Declan, but I don't think he went on his killing spree because of anything Jo did or didn't do, or from out of any real concern about Bobby. Declan went on his spree because he wanted attention, specifically Bobby's attention.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by outerbankschick on Dec 28, 2008 22:55:37 GMT -5
I agree Patcat. And that is a startling parallel to Jo's "all about me" actions in "Blind Spot". Self-absorbed father raised a self-absorbed daughter.
|
|
leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
|
Post by leanonme on Dec 29, 2008 1:25:33 GMT -5
I just watched this again tonight. Jo could not have been Sebastian at any time in the past because semen was always found at the scene of real Sebastian crimes.
Declan leaked information to the press on the case to try and draw Sebastian out, but the info drove him underground, and sold out his FBI team. 12 murders went unsolved because of this. I got the sense that this was the cause of the ill will toward Declan, not the breakdown.
To me, it seemed that Declan's fall from esteem was what caused his breakdown, along with his continued obsession with Sebastian. I thought that Bobby probably started to distance himself at the time of Declan's press leak because Dec was being reckless, although this seems to have been hard for Bobby.
One of the really sad, and tellling, moments in this episode is when Jo and Declan first meet up at 1PP. Declan runs right to Bobby and is excited to see him, hugs him, and Jo sort of yells out, "Dad, I'm ok." As a second thought Declan sort of scolds her, "I know you are."
One thing I picked up,which I missed before was Ross. When they tell Ross that Dec is there for Jo, not to track Sebastian, Ross snidely says,"Yes, I saw his concern." Meaning, he saw how Declan had treated Jo.
I thought that Jo bit her tongue off because Declan wanted to interview her for his book on women serial killers. I could be wrong, I am not sure of the timing. But didn't Declan say that he had drawn Nicole out with the book? And in "Blind Spot", Jo says that Declan doesn't believe women could be serial killers. So, it seems the book would have been after Jo's arrest. Biting her tongue off would have been great revenge when her father needed her info for a book.
|
|
|
Post by maherjunkie on Dec 29, 2008 11:20:41 GMT -5
I thought Declan felt it could be a matter of time.
|
|
|
Post by quietfireca on Dec 30, 2008 22:32:37 GMT -5
Goren loved Declan and vice versa!
Although he hadn't seen him in years, Goren still protected Declan when Ross started trashing him. Bobby hung his head in front of Ross and told him in a tense voice "He didn't botch it". (Talk about an awkward position {and beautifully acted by VDO} - Bobby is trying to give the new boss, who is being an assuming jerk, information that the new boss could care less about.... I get so mad at Ross - he walked in there with so many preconcieved ideas, it's a wonder his squad hasn't murdered him). Goren still has a huge respect for Declan, but he is careful. Little alarm bells may have gone off right away (just as Eames noticed - ya, even Ross) when he saw how poorly Declan treated Jo when they met in the interview room.
I think Declan was top notch in his time or Bobby would have seen through him in a second. Everything Declan taught him had to be filtered through Goren's sensibilities and intellect and we know Goren is no fool. Bobby had no embarrassment over being associated with Declan.
It makes sense to me that Sebastien may very well have been the start of Declan's unhinging and perhaps the distancing between the two men. (I loved mahrjunkie's idea that Sebastien might have been Jo even earlier!!! It's just that darn little semen problem... lol!!!)
Here is another case where the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Declan and Jo, are both capable of horrendous acts.
|
|
|
Post by maherjunkie on Dec 30, 2008 22:49:49 GMT -5
Now see, I totally missed that, but whose to say she didn't use one of the boys she made out with if they didn't run... ;D
|
|