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Post by miamimaya on Oct 1, 2006 23:03:24 GMT -5
I'm surprised by some of the anger on this board. Change was inevitable for CI. Its ratings and demos were down the last few years, and down even more over the summer. Its actors were clearly burnt out last year. VDO and Eames had their least interesting season (I'm sorry, but they were on Cruise Control a lot). We all miss Deakins and Carver, but honestly, they were given so little to do it's amazing actors as talented as they are hung around as long as they did. Annabella was an abomination. She was inaudible and bored and could barely hide her misery. The plots became obsessed with the criminal's sometimes unbelievable cover-up, not the criminal's intent. Instead of giving the new season a chance, even after a pretty spectacular opening, it seems like it's been one whine after another. Where are my chung chungs? Where are my location cards? Why are they trying new visual changes? Why doesn't this Captain treat Goren with respect (Hello: conflict?) Why isn't Wheeler doing deeper psychological analysis of the teacher (I thought the kid's story was heart breaking, almost no one here mentioned it). Not all the changes will work out, but at least they are trying to shake the show up. Last season NBC came so close to cancelling the show, the producers weren't able to produce the four spring episodes they had always done in the past. I think let the new actors and new writers and new producers find their way. The old way, which worked the first three seasons, had slowly been drying up. Just because we love the show for what it was doesn't mean we should turn everything that came before this season into Camelot. Chill out people.
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Post by Techguy on Oct 1, 2006 23:23:12 GMT -5
Miamimaya, apparently you haven't visited some of the "other" message boards which, in my opinion, have turned anger and whining into a new art form and why I choose not to join up anywhere else.
As for the discussion posts on this board--change might be inevitable for CI, but it isn't always pretty and not all aspects are always welcome by everyone.
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Post by mikeyrocks on Oct 1, 2006 23:25:41 GMT -5
LOL Cassie - Yes I agree with you Chris is looking mighty fine this season. Well rested and happy. He seemed somewhat stressed last year didn't he.
Unlike many I enjoyed Tru Love well enough! I agree the writing was abit sloppy and the story not fully fleshed out BUT I think the main cast did the best with what they were given.
I'm also quite happy with the new cast memembers . I think EB is doing a great job as the new captain. So far I have been very impressed with him.
I feel the same about Wheeler - I think she is going to be a character of many layers and I like that. Kudo's to Julianna Nicholson to showing this after only one episode. I really enjoyed the humorous bantering and chemistry btwn Logan and Wheeler - I look forward to seeing their partnership progress.
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 1, 2006 23:29:38 GMT -5
I'm surprised by some of the anger on this board. Change was inevitable for CI. Its ratings and demos were down the last few years Actually, miamimaya, ratings were steady from the year before (when DH went up against CI). And, frankly, I don't know what you're talking about when you reference "anger" on this board. We express our opinions, that's not angry, it's just a fact. Instead of giving the new season a chance, even after a pretty spectacular opening, it seems like it's been one whine after another. One whine after another? What board have you been reading? Blind Spot was well-received, Tru Luv, not as much. How is expressing our opinions on the quality of these episodes "whining"? Tru Luv was a subpar episode, starting with a weak script and followed by weak acting. If that's "whining" well, then, I'm afraid you've misjudged what this board is all about. We are not a fan-site for VDO or Warren Leight or anyone else. We react as fans. To the quality of what we see on our screens. Tru Luv got the discussion the fans believe it deserved. Unfortunate if that upsets you. Why not post why you believe Tru Luv was a fantastic episode instead of attacking those who've already expressed their opinions? As is, the tenor of your post is that of a blind cheerleader for the new regime.
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Post by sarahlee on Oct 1, 2006 23:36:16 GMT -5
Yes, mmm, post your thoughts on "Tru Love". I know we'd like to hear it. You can already see we happily discuss the most obscure points we can come up with. New voices are welcome! This is not a popualrity poll, we invite differing views.
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Post by gorenrocks on Oct 1, 2006 23:40:15 GMT -5
miamimaya, take your own advice and chill. then, when you're cool, post your views on Tru Luv and we'll discuss.
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Post by Jefferaldo on Oct 2, 2006 2:16:00 GMT -5
I'm in the minority here. I actually liked Tru Luv. However, I do agree that it had a more mothership feel to it. They should have dealt more with why Danielle was re-living her teen years. Wheeler just hada line about some trauma as a teen but trauma could be anything. A lot of people suffer from some kind of trauma in their teens so why is she different? But I do believe Logan and Wheeler got through to her in the end. Well that was the writer's intention anyway -- how the actors portrayed it is a different story.
As for Keith, I don't think he was taken advantage of. Though it wasn't 'tru luv', he was definately smart enough to know (although a bit stubborn) if he was being taken advantage of. "Have you read Keith's essay on Hamlet? He's quite advanced for his age. He's writing at a freshman college level." I don't think Danielle was lying here.
As I said, I don't think Keith was being taken advantage of -- not in the usual sence, anyway. Their relationship: He loves her, She loves him but also for the fact that she was re-experiencing her childhood. If anything, he was using her. He was a loser, an outcast at school that got picked on and bullied, but after everyone found out he was sleeping with Danielle, all that turned into support. He was the school champion. A legend. See how happy he was when he left the school in cuffs and put his hands up in joy?
ADA Kent -- I already prefer her to Carver. I really disliked Carver's no nonsence attitude to justice. Vance's line delivery also always seemed superficial to me. Her line delivery and subtlety (if you will) makes me think she's very sophisticated and intelligent, but somewhat skeptical at the same time.
More later.
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Post by Jefferaldo on Oct 2, 2006 2:18:46 GMT -5
Also about the location cards -- do we really need them to enjoy an episode? Yes, I know they are a Law & Order trademark but I had no problem telling what locations they were at. The only time I questioned myself was the scene where Keith brought out in cuffs to the cheering crowd. Was that a courthouse, or the school. Turns out it was the school (maybe administration building) because across the street there was a building with letters on it that read SCHOOL
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Post by mwendyr on Oct 2, 2006 7:16:45 GMT -5
I just watched this and I actually liked it. It was different but it was good and I like Wheeler, although I do miss Barek. My favourite part was when the Captain mentioned that he'd break a teacher in two if they ever touched his boys and then Logan said "Sure, now, but what about when you were 16?" That's just an excellent question. Our opinions on subjects change with each year and it depends on our circumstances, a parent would easily be angry at such a situation but as you saw all the kids around the school they were cheering Keith on like it was the best thing that could've happened to him. My only problem with it is that we didn't found out what happened to Danielle to make her remain at the stage of a teenager. I would really have liked to have found out what the event was. Wendy Hugs
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Post by Metella on Oct 2, 2006 8:12:59 GMT -5
miamimaya: I also got the impression you are a part of the new crew for CI - wanting to see the fans gasp in appreciation and gush nothing but good.
If I'm wrong - and you are only a viewing fan, I'd be glad and interested to know that.
As far as this board - from the episode ONE to TruLove: we have analyzed to bits each episode. I don't think anyone one here is against the changes just because they are different - we have stated clearly what and WHY we do and don't like about the changes. That is not whining - it is tuned in and true attention. No show could as for more then what the members on this board give as fans to CI.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 2, 2006 8:17:36 GMT -5
Well, one person's whining is another's expression of an opinion (g). I think we do a pretty good job of not having the first and allowing the other.
My sense about TRU LOVE is that the fault was in the script and not the execution. Noth and Nicholson were more than fine, but there appeared to be too many ideas flowing through the script. The show didn't end so much as it ran out of time.
And I confess I miss the title cards and the "Doink-Doink"--but change is always difficult (g).
Patcat
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Post by Jefferaldo on Oct 2, 2006 8:57:26 GMT -5
Yes, as I stated in my post, there were a few open doors left with the script. But I still liked the story.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 2, 2006 10:21:51 GMT -5
Oh, I thought the story had tremendous potential. But I wanted a pay-off--an aria (g)--where Logan set the kid straight or ripped into the teacher. Or Wheeler, who I think has the potential to use that cuteness to really disarm people.
Patcat
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Post by Jefferaldo on Oct 2, 2006 11:03:53 GMT -5
Oh, I thought the story had tremendous potential. But I wanted a pay-off--an aria (g)--where Logan set the kid straight or ripped into the teacher. Or Wheeler, who I think has the potential to use that cuteness to really disarm people. Patcat I think a good aria would have been Wheeler interogating the teacher in the interogation room and Keith watching and listening with Logan in the observation room - Dramma Giocoso style. While Wheeler digs deep into why Danielle is reliving her teen years, she spills it and admits it and says that is why she was with Keith. Keith would then go saying helplessly "No, Danielle, say you love me" like in the courtroom scene. On the topic of Dramma Giocoso -- still one of the best arias imo.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 2, 2006 16:13:20 GMT -5
Hi Miamimaya I am not upset about the change in LOCI. Originally I wasn’t thrilled when Logan came back to town. But I adjusted to him moving in. I would prefer that both detective teams, pop in ever now and then on the other show, just to knit the two teams together for the one show. Ross is everything so far I was hoping for. Wheeler is cool! I would like if possible my chin chungs comes back, to me that is the Law & Order trade mark. This episode is ok, I don’t think it was bad, but I do feel there were a few loose ends to it. I will always promote my 2 hours episode whenever possible. But I also feel, "Blind Spot" was emotionally charging to the viewer because the crime involved regular cast members. So it was a tad bit of a let down from the season opener. I was thinking maybe "Blind Spot" should have been the season finale. But I will tell you what upsets me Like I posted earlier, the dig on Barek, but it’s not so much the dig on the character. It’s what is acceptable and what isn’t. I don’t have a problem with people not liking Barek. But I do have a problem when they go off on a binge of tearing the character down, and down again. If you don’t like her….fine….move on….. The same thing happens to the Nicole Wallace character. There are some people who go off the deep end of lusting over Goren/VDO; They are reminded repeatedly to watch themselves that this board is NOT a VDO Fan Club. Ok…point taken. However, just as much as some people get sick and tired of the drooling over D’Onofrio/Goren. I get tired of hearing the continual bashing of Barek and Wallace. IF you love to hate them, because they are part of the storyline, ok. But if your hating them because you don’t want them part of the show at all. Then why continue to watch the show and rag on and on about them? Offer up your reasons, what you don’t like about the character, but quit being a joy stealer for the ones who do enjoy these characters. We all watch the show for different reasons, and I think we all need to be a little respectful that what one person is enjoying, isn’t another’s cup of tea. Like a wise old man has said to me repeatedly through the years. “Most things are good for us. As longs as they are done in moderation” that goes for drooling over the actors and characters and bashing them as well I hope I didnt offend anyone. Miamimaya, oh my how did you ever come up with that name and what did you enjoy most about the show?
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