MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 13, 2005 13:02:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with you Pat. They did start off with very emotionally charged episodes like "Want", "Semi-Detached" and "Great Barrier"--only to bring us to some 'eh' episodes later in the season. Eosphorous must have not made a huge impression on me, cause I can't even remember what happened in it!
The deflation factor was inevitable toward the winter hiatus. I guess they are preparing to rev-up for the Logan/Goren head-butting in Feb., like TV Guide said. Personally, I CANNOT WAIT to see Logan work with Goren. It should make for an interesting story, if they have a really good case for the trio to be working on as well--not get lost in Goren vs. Logan universe.
Personally, I like the episodes that follow the criminal point of view, as Criminal Intent was supposed to be--setting it apart from the other Law and Orders. And I like watching profile-Goren, as opposed to Manic-Goren ( which ups the 'campy' factor) Although, seeing instances where the main characters are put in totally different situations than what we are used to seeing, does add some spice to the hum-drum of the formulaic/predictable crime drama. (ex: Want, Great Barrier, Semi-Detached, Anti-Thesis, Person of Interest)
And sadly, I have not seen any of Season 2, except for the video clips of certain season 2 episodes on thereelvincentdonofrio.com site. Bless them...without their clips, I wouldn't have seen the wonderful Bobby/Nicole interaction from Anti-Thesis or Person of Interest. <bows at reelvincent site creator's feet>
The clip of "Cherry Red", with Bobby in the corvet that I did see on their site...was priceless. <sniffle> I want Season 2 on DVD!!
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Post by Patcat on Jan 13, 2005 14:07:19 GMT -5
CHERRY RED is a great episode--maybe the best. It's got great inside jokes (the casting of Dennis Christopher and Paul Dooley as father and son), great Goren getting inside the criminal (s) head, great snarky moments for Eames, and even a terrific scene with Carver and Goren. And a bit of emotional resonance, since the victim was extremely likable--you really want Goren and Eames to get the bad guy.
Patcat
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Post by janetcatbird on Jan 13, 2005 16:07:33 GMT -5
See, I was never that big a Logan fan so I'm somewhat upset that they're bringing him in. Completely wrong style for this, and you just know he's gonna hit on Eames. Are they that desperate for ratings? Seems to me they've been doing several things lately to try to mutually boost each other--Candace Bergin on the mothership before "Trial by Jury", and now this.
I missed "Silver Lining" and one other episode this season and never got around to watching the tapes so I can't really comment about the whole season so far. And we don't get a new episode this week due to the awards show, sigh.
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Post by velocity on Jan 13, 2005 19:20:11 GMT -5
I agree with PatCat. CI had such a dramatic beginning. Semi-Detached,Want, were jaw droppers, out of character, and rivoting for me. The rest fell into the mediocre category. I had high hopes for Gone, cause Robert C. is a good solid character actor. He did a good job on the character, but there was not enough good interaction. He was under utilized. Just my opinion.
For me, the show is the best, when it steps out of the formula, and moves beyond.
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Post by Techguy on Jan 14, 2005 13:24:30 GMT -5
I seem to be falling in line with many of the comments already made. "Cherry Red" is to my mind the watershed CI episode of the series so far. This episode is a perfect example of the whole being even greater than the sum of its many excellent parts, which somehow managed to combine humor, pathos and the entire spectrum of emotions in between. What else can I say about the scene of Goren in the red sports car that hasn't already been mentioned? The scene is perfectly written and executed, with the added delight of seeing Det. Goren emasculate the perp by entering the vehicle first. And the subsequent comment by Eames is too priceless; those who have not seen this episode are in for a treat if and when the reruns show up on TV or the entire season DVD set is released.
Oh, I seem to have been sidetracked. The topic of this thread is the progression of the current season. Well, again, I tend to agree with those who have commented that it started out with a few emotionally charged episodes, followed by some that were more neutral or maybe even a little flat. I can accept a certain amount of ebb and flow, peaks and valleys, in the progression of episodes over the course of a season, as I do not think it is possible, or even desirable, to keep the stories and Det. Goren's behavior so edgy as to become uncomfortable or downright unbelievable.
And as for the return of Chris Noth as Mike Logan, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach to this development, much as I did with the Olivia d'Abo/Nicole Wallace episode. Personally, I don't think Noth/Logan is a good fit for CI over the long haul, so any permananent replacement or addition of the character to CI would be out of place. However, for a single episode with the prospect of a Goren-Logan showdown of some sort, that I'm game for. Time will tell whether expectations meet reality.
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KMC
Rookie
Posts: 24
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Post by KMC on Jan 14, 2005 23:10:34 GMT -5
I've never cared for the Logan character...always thought he had too much of a bump on himself...especially after seeing that "movie" they did years back...so I'm looking forward to seeing Goren slice and dice him in his inimitable way.
My impression of this season has been one of Bobby needing a break...a vacation...a sabatical...something....he's just getting a little too wound up about some of these cases. Not that I don't enjoy a stroll though his head...but realistically...if I were Eames or Deakins...I'd be getting a little worried about him.
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Post by Patcat on Jan 14, 2005 23:37:08 GMT -5
There's been a few hints that Eames and Dickens are concerned about Goren, especially in SEMI-DETACHED and WANT. And in GONE there was a moment when Goren was examining brochures for hotels in Thailand. Deakins walked up and said, "Planning for some R and R?" I thought that there might have been a bit of hope that Goren was planning a vacation on Deakins' part.
But Goren strikes me as someone who's in a vicious circle--he needs to take a vacation, but he can't live without working, but he really needs to get some rest in order to work...well, you get it.
Patcat
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Post by chief on Jan 15, 2005 5:12:12 GMT -5
I'm with those that are seying the season is somewhat disappointing. I think the writer's are either getting lazy, bored or can see the demise of the series. I'm waiting for the new L&O in the spring. Very sorry Lenny won't be there, he added a dose of reality in the original L&O and in guest shots on SVU. chief
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Post by Enthralled on Jan 15, 2005 21:11:04 GMT -5
Season 4 has been a huge disappointment - everyone in the cast seems to be wierded out (Goren, too much of the time) annoyed (Eames) bored (Deakins - who can blame him) MAD (Carver) Episodes seem out of cync or just plain poorly written - I know LOCI sets a high bar in terms of writing and acting, and this year it is just mediocre.
I have said this before, but I think Balcer too a wrong turn with the character development of Goren this year -and underestimated the audience reaction. The changes were jarring and unsettling. Maybe that is what he was going for - but it was overdone.
Perhaps we are seeing the ambivilance that D'Onofrio is being to have with the character - he looks disengaged and bored. I think the little drama of Nov-Dec. took a toll on the series - all of a sudden the attention was focused on D'Onofrio and the series became secondary. I am hoping that the rest of the year will be better. Gone was a bit better - lets get back tight story lines, crisp dialogue and getting the bad guys - please!
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Post by Patcat on Jan 16, 2005 0:00:58 GMT -5
I have to disagree that this season has been a disappointment. Now, admittedly, I've missed a lot of the second season, which many people seem to regard as the best, but I think, with the exception of Nicole Wallace's return, it's been a solid season. But I liked both SEMI-DETACHED and WANT a great deal, and I like what I've seen as Eames' increased involvement with many of the cases.
My two cents.
Patcat
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KMC
Rookie
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Post by KMC on Jan 16, 2005 9:36:34 GMT -5
I don't know that I've been disapointed with this season...I'm just wondering if there is subtle arc that's heading it in a specific direction...or if they just decided to "play" with the characters a bit.
Even though the "mother ship" is very plot/case oriented...they've been able to show us more about the regulars...they even did an ep. that spent a day following everyone's reactions to the execution of a criminal...a case they had all been involved with. And some of those reactions carried over through the series...the ADA being killed in a car wreck, Lenny going on the wagon, Ray committing adultery and being found out.
I guess what I'm saying is that I wish we could have a least one ep. like that for CI...G & E working a case and Bobby being distracted...his's mother took a bad turn..he found out something about his brother...etc., and Eames trying to help. I know this might sound kind of schmaltzy, but lets face facts...they're human beings who have personal lives and problems...and sometimes those problems could intrude into their work lives...it would be interesting to see how they would deal with that.
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Post by LOCIfan on Jan 16, 2005 15:35:10 GMT -5
I'm not at all disappointed with season 4 thus far. Posthumous Collection, Want, Semi-Detached, Eosphoros, Magnificat and Silver Lining have all had wonderful elements of psychological insight and interesting twists, turns and bad guys. The two episodes I haven't cared for are In The Dark, and View From Up Here -- and even those were better than most of what passes for entertainment on television... I agree that the whole hullaballoo concerning D'Onfrio's health and personal life diverted attention from the fictional world of the show, but that's an outside influence. D'Onofrio may have been tired in certain eps, and that shows in his characterization of Goren, but absent all the gossip about D'Onofrio's personal life, Goren's affect does not seem entirely out of line with what a real homicide detective might be feeling on the job. Drained. Tired. Overworked. Individuals who don't burn out on such taxing jobs have to go through periods of lower energy. It makes sense. As for those who've felt Goren's on a downward spiral this season, I don't know. The evidence in the scripts is just too ambiguous. Sure, certain comments CAN be interpretted to mean Goren's feeling/thinking one way, but there is always another, less ominous interpretation. I.e. Deakins' comment to Goren in Gone regarding the travel brochures. Deakins said "Planning some R & R?" That statement can be interpretted to mean Deakins thinks Goren could use some R & R and hoped he was planning a vacation. Or it could be interpretted as a joke -- i.e. how come you're looking at vacation brochures at work? or simply as Deakins' indirect way of asking what Goren was doing. If Deakins had said, "glad to see you're planning some R & R. you could use it." Okay, that'd be one thing. Personally, given the fact that Deakins followed up his statement with some comment about how Thailand, Singapore, etc... were "way off his grid", I took Deakins' statement as a lighter comment, along the lines of "how's a guy on a cop's salary going to afford such a plush vacation?" -- as though Goren could've been looking at pictures of the moon and Deakins would've asked the same thing... The creative team behind the series has said Goren's being pushed outside his comfort zone this season -- which was definitely apparent in Semi-Detached, but that doesn't indicate to me that every ambiguity must be resolved in that direction. I think a lot of how various viewers have reacted to this season has to do with how they've chosen (consciously or not) to interpret the ambiguous elements in each episode. Sometimes, maybe a cigar IS just a cigar. Even on LOCI.
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 16, 2005 17:17:14 GMT -5
I've enjoyed season four. That's not to say I've always enjoyed watching some of the episodes. Posthumous Collection and Want gave me nightmares (and put me off men for a couple of hours ) and Jeanie, in In the Dark gives new meaning to expression 'stoney-faced'. (That episode generated more bad puns from me than any other. ) A pleasant viewing experience is not what I expect from LOCI. I want an interesting one and season four's lived up to that for me. The issues and the characters have elicited strong emotional responses from me, and most of us I think judging by the extent and depth of some of our episode discussions. I suspect the uncertainty around Vincent's health has had some bearing on the quality of the writing; perhaps forcing quick re-writes to cover the unexpected. While the plots have been technically thin this season, this has happened in other seasons too i.e pravda, etc and personally I don't think the writing would necessarily be enhanced by dotting all the 'I's. Adding the procedural aspect i.e showing how Goren arrives at his conclusions with full explanations would just take time away from exploring the issues and the characters which is what grabs me and keeps me interested.
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Post by BegToDiffer on Jan 17, 2005 16:24:09 GMT -5
While the 4th season may not be the best, this show never ceases to amaze me. The first time I saw Semi-Detached, I was deeply disturbed by it. I hated everything Goren did in it and no one was going to convince me otherwise. Well, eat my words, cause after viewing it two more times, I have a whole different view on it and I've done a complete turn around on Goren's behavior in it. Like with all the other shows I have on tape, when I see them again, I see things I hadn't seen the first time and "get" things I completely missed before. Maybe a few more repeats of season 4 and I will really like it. Thoughts on Cherry Red- one of my all time favorites!
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Post by chief on Jan 17, 2005 16:30:08 GMT -5
Maybe watching CI episodes is like reading John LeCarre or Patrick O'Brian. You have to read them a second time (or third) to get all the nuances. chief
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