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Post by Patcat on Jan 20, 2005 9:57:52 GMT -5
I'm not fond of the CSI shows, either. I like some of the characters--Grissom is intriguing--and many of the actors--William Petersen and Gary Sinise in particular, but the shows are too unbelievable for me. (And I don't regard LOCI as realistic, mind you.) And they're all so dark! And I don't mean the subject matter--I mean you can't see what's going on! There's too much style, and not encough substance, a problem I have with much of Jerry Bruckheimer's productions.
For me, LOCI offers a terrific combination of style and substance, as well as a sense of humor.
Patcat
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 20, 2005 10:31:18 GMT -5
HI Pat, You are right about the darkness of the CSI shows. I too, have a hard time seeing the characters working a scene, cause they have to do it all the time in the dark! I wish they'd flip a light switch somtimes. CSI:NY actually had to go back and lighten their show, literally, cause people were complaining. I don't much care for CSI NY, but I do still watch CSI Vegas. Grissom is one of my fav characters, but that show hasn't been catching my attention this season. I love Criminal Intent because of the facinating profiling skills of Goren, his uniqueness as an investigator, the turn-around look at cases from the criminal POV, and Eames' personality as a grounding element for Goren. Can't wait for Jan 30 for the new episode COLLECTIVE. Vampires....mmmmmm!
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Post by Patcat on Jan 20, 2005 11:36:03 GMT -5
Yea, vampires...possiblity of Goren and Eames dressed up...Goren interacting with obsessive nerdy types...
'Course, we've been burned by the synopsis before...
And sometimes pleasantly surprised.
Patcat
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 21, 2005 10:15:16 GMT -5
Man, Bobby would make one HUGE vampire! Hmmm...he would look yummy in a blood red vest, black coat and pants...I could see many women letting him nibble on their necks! Yea, one episode I was dissapointed in the synopsis and promos on NBC was SILVER LINING. They made the cat burgler out to be some sex fiend Cassanova that Goren was going to 'match wits with'. And while he did present a challenge, hitting another neighbor while Goren/Eames staked out the wrong house, I didn't see his as such a sex maniac. Hmm...guess the promo's don't always hit the nail on the head.
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Post by BegToDiffer on Jan 21, 2005 11:04:31 GMT -5
To MelTex: LMAO at the "huge vampire" line. Just the thought made my morning. At the way this season has been going, I wouldn't be surprised to see Barnabas Collins in this episode.
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 21, 2005 15:22:19 GMT -5
;D Glad I could bring a smile into your day BegToDiffer!
But, he would be the worlds tallest Vamp. Buffy would have even had a problem with Groen-vamp, I think!
I'm not familiar with Barnabas Collins.
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Post by Summerfield on Jan 21, 2005 16:52:16 GMT -5
Sorry no vampire garb. I read on the reel, that Goren dresses in a black sweater!
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KMC
Rookie
Posts: 24
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Post by KMC on Jan 21, 2005 21:45:49 GMT -5
Barnabas Collins....there's a flashback. Though I could see Bobby with a wolf's head cane and a flowing cape...sigh
But a black sweater is a step in the right direction....wonder if Eames will dig out one of her old "vice" outfits....
Yeah, these promos are not to be trusted....they made a big deal about Alex going "undercover" in the high-rise ep...and what was that scene...20 seconds long..if that. And the Holloween ep...that was another let down. I think they should realize that they do more harm to themselves than good when they put out mis-leading promos.
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Post by janetcatbird on Jan 21, 2005 23:32:57 GMT -5
Visions of Goren in "Rocky Horror" gear...picture that and try to sleep tonight. Although I would have liked to see a Carver/Deakins double-take should Eames come out in unusual costume. (And then all I could think of was Dunkey in Shrek: "Man, I am gonna need a whole lot of serious therapy after this is over, look at my eyeball twitchin'!")
Again, by now we should be way skeptical of the promos, has anyone actually seen an ad on TV for this? Oh well, time enough to discuss the ep when it airs. It's been a long weeka nd I'm pooped. Later all,
Catbird
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Post by BegToDiffer on Jan 22, 2005 16:49:29 GMT -5
MelTex: Way back when.....there was a TV soap opera called Dark Shadows. The lead character and ever popular vampire was Barnabas Collins. (Gosh, I must be older than I thought.)
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Post by Marie on Jan 23, 2005 12:25:15 GMT -5
Interesting thread! Looking forward to contributing to the discussion, so here goes!
I gather some aren't entirely happy with what they've seen thus far of season 4..? Too much broody Goren, coupled with a weak 3rd installment of the Nicole storyline, for starters. Speaking for myself, I'd get bored pretty quick if they left him to stand in one spot for too long! As Goren's character is the most fascinating thing about the show; it's why I love LOCI - and enjoy all these telling insights into his pathology.
I've read the phrase "melt down" applied to his current state of mind this year, but I see it as simply peeling back his layers to expose more of what lies beneath. While keeping their promice to the actor by continuing to allow D'Onofrio the freedom to play Goren off the page - like a "walking bass line" (Jazz term: a solo that keeps time with the main beat while simultaneously moving off it and down melodic side-tributaries before swinging back.) And I applaude the writers for doing that; as who wants to hear the same old tune, week after week?
Moreover, it strikes me as a logical progression of his character and to be expected at this point in the series. A case of cashing in on subtext planted in previous years. Leading me to suspect there's an agenda at work here, too; ie: these ep's are also seeds, in and of themselves. They're simply moving Goren into "position" so they can explore yet another area of his life & pathology further down the road. A starting point, not a final destination in other words. Not by a long shot.
As for what been revealed in ep's like "Semi-Detached" and "Want" (which I loved!) it's served to confirm (imo) that Det. Goren remains single because as much as he truly longs for a meaningful relationship, he's unwilling to invest himself emotionally in something that might not last or give him what he wants; as a woman can leave, a vocation in life doesn't. Perhaps Bobby realizes that what he really wants is an "unconditional love" - like Nellie had for her Barry (minus the insane obssession of course; chuckle!) and knows himself well enough to understand that he's asking a lot, perhaps too much..?
It's been interesting to see a more vulnerable side of Goren, at any rate. Empathy and compassion serve him well as a detective, they give him insights into others which he can use. But at a price. They leave him open to feeling more than he'd like to. And clearly, he's not always comfortable employing his tricks; not that it prevents him from doing his job.
I agree with others that the season started off with a bang and then seemed to fizzle out a bit, with less interesting ep's. Oh well, you can't hit a home run every time. And I'd hoped for more too, from "Great Barrier". Nicole's storyline was ready to end, and I saw the version wherein they killed her off. Which imo, was the better of the two; although even that ending felt flat. So I'm glad she'll be back at some point. Maybe this time they'll get it right. I'm secrelty hoping she'll go for the ultimate "tit-for-tat" and take from Bobby what he took from her (for reasoning it was his fault she was forced to kill her partner in crime.) And ergo plans to pay a visit to the Carmel Ridge Centre! But it turns out to be a decoy - her real target is Eames. Whom she intends to kill while Bobby watches by helplessly; knowing she'll be next, but that's also part of the plan. To rob him of the consolation prize; ie: bringing his arch-nemisis to justice. (Cheers, Bobby.) But she makes an error, and in the end, it's Eames who puts Nicole into her grave. Oooo!!
So despite a few duds, I remain optomistic about season 4. There's still plenty of time to wow us with great episodes!
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Post by missymagoshi on Jan 23, 2005 14:35:06 GMT -5
Wow, Marie, great post. So much to think about. The jazz ref is a particularly interesting analogy. Are you a musician? I suspect that Balcer and the writers have a total agenda for the season and all we can do is sit back and watch it play out.
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Post by velocity on Jan 23, 2005 15:23:49 GMT -5
Marie's nice post inspired additional thought on my part also. I was one of the ones who was really wowed by Semi-D, and Want, and then fell into the disappointment well.
I have been so disappointed at the set-up created by the Promos which never stack up to what they are selling. I keep forgetting, their job, shy of total lies, is to suck me in to watch. I am going to be underwelmed if I believe their hype. What I have also forgotten is the unique position Vincent is in, doing this character. He has freedoms, few other actors have on TV - creative freedom to mold this character in any direction he wishes. I agree with Marie, he is unfolding layers, and I am so impatient, that I want him to peel faster - lolol.. I also forget that Vincent, is human (well duh!), his creative juices run low in that actor's battery also. For all I know, he is constantly tired with that schedule. He is going to hit and miss the "100 pct" he is aiming for just like the rest of us humans. Sometimes, he will be less then dazzling, cause it's natural. I plan on practicing patience for a change, and view the character Goren, as a work in progress - like a sculpture, painting, book, etc. I know the majority of you enjoy the traditional crime story, and more, crime story and do a wonderful job of analyizing each tidbit. I enjoy crime story also, but I enjoy what Vincent is creating far more. I am starved for good acting which there has been so damn little of for years. Good acting that pulls you into a character, and carries you along with him/her like you are part of the same body. Acting, without hooking into the emotions and imaginations of the audience, is just saying lines. Vincent, at his best, makes me feel the lines. That is acting. Remember, The Subway, I can still well up, everytime I hear those last words he says about the Maple leaves turning over to catch the rain. It brings tears to my eyes. The writer, wrote good lines - Vincent brought them to life. That is acting - so I say, I will be patient and watch Vincent do his creation at his speed, not at my need to see it.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Jan 23, 2005 21:52:51 GMT -5
There's an idea...Maybe I am just impatient with CI this season. I don't see any layers being peeled back, I see Goren as becoming more disinterested in the world around him. He appears to be withdrawing into himself. I agree with what I have seen in other places that Goren seems monotone and very tired. I'm not sure if it is a reflection of the actor or what. If they are really "peeling" back layers, I wish they'd get to a point already! Oh! There's that impatience I guess!
Someone talked about him having a woman or a persoal life but, all that is really irrelevant to CI. CI is about crime solving, not how many dates Goren does or does not get. I hope they leave that part of CI alone.
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js
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 143
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Post by js on Jan 23, 2005 22:09:01 GMT -5
I agree about keeping away from Goren's personal life - and the other characters as well. That is one of the things I like about the Mothership and about CI. The viewer gets an occasional glimpse into the personal lives, but not much. (In fact, the Mothership got a little too far into Ray's adultery for my liking.)
No soap, please.
js
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