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Post by Summerfield on Jan 17, 2005 19:37:03 GMT -5
My sister knows how much I enjoy CI. She admitted she watches, but doesn't get it most of the time. In fact she told me it's hard to watch because she has to think too much! Hum...intelligent T.V.? You're kidding! Maybe that's why so much drivel is considered good T.V. Heaven forbid, we might have to think!
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Post by NicoleMarie on Jan 17, 2005 21:44:41 GMT -5
After watching some repeats, I still think the same thing I thought about this season: BLAH. I forced myself to rewatch the most annoying episodes, and they still annoy me. I think I'll just stick to my DVDs and tapes. I don't know why I keep watching, I guess I'm just hopeful. hehehe
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KMC
Rookie
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Post by KMC on Jan 17, 2005 22:32:04 GMT -5
Some of the best series have had their dry spells and their clunker episodes...(Specter of the Gun comes to mind...name that series!) It's doesn't mean that the show's in trouble or the writers/actors are bored...sometimes series just hit a bump in the road...so to speak...and need a little time to get back on track.
Frankly I wasn't suprised to hear about VDO fainting fits and exhaustion...I thought he was looking a bit seedy from the begining of the season.
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Post by twilight on Jan 17, 2005 23:20:30 GMT -5
Season 4 has certainly come with its disappointments. Still, I'm not sure I'd dismiss the entire season, as I definitely enjoyed some of the episodes. Semi-Detached, The Posthumous Collection, Magnificat and Silver Lining were all quite good. Out of these, Silver Lining was by far the lightest going; the first three (especially Posthumous Collection and Magnificat) were pretty intense. Want was also a very good episode, despite the fact that it kind of creeped me out, heh.
I don't think the show's going downhill, necessarily. It's gotten a bit darker; there have been some lousy episodes; Goren has been looking more tired and a bit sad throughout. If I could change things, I'd probably want to get rid of the ridiculously implausible plots (such as the one in View from the Top) and get Goren to cheer up a bit, as I miss his humor. If they're going to take him into some sort of drama, I wouldn't write it off automatically. I mean, Vincent's a fantastic actor; I'm sure he'd do something interesting with it. Still, I think I do miss season 1 Goren a bit. He was far more amusing.
But these are minor complaints overall. Except for a few duds, I don't think this season has been any worse than the others I've seen.
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Post by missymagoshi on Jan 18, 2005 0:11:36 GMT -5
My faves this season so far, Want and Semi-Detached hands down. To me they were the most original and interesting of all the episodes.
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 19, 2005 10:47:57 GMT -5
;D Ok, all this talk about CHERRY RED is making me SOOO jealous! I adored the clip I saw of Goren in the sports car, and now everyone talking about all the other great scenes...*kicks desk* NOT Fair! AS for the Logan return, I'm not worried about him being a perminant edition to CI. I know he wouldn't fit the show, or the other characters, and from what I've read, Noth is probably going to do a couple of more L&O movies. I do think the episode with him will be original and interesting. Like I said before, I like to see the main characters like Goren/Eames taken out of thier natural element and put in off-formula situations. Logan comming in for a case, would definitely be one of those cases. On the whole, Season 4 has been OK, with its good episodes and its "Ok, could have done without that episode" ones. To me, the show that seems to be continually kicking hiney this season is L&O: SVU! They've had some riveting, blow me away plots and cases, great guest stars, wonderful character developments (ie. Stabler's divorce, Dr. Hendrix intro, Benson's breakdown) and, well,...the show has just been rockin' hard core! I gues they are lucky to have a great ensamble cast to work with, and don't have to rely so much on a single character that could burn out.
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Post by chief on Jan 19, 2005 11:02:49 GMT -5
Hi melTex, I agree about SVU. Marissa hargitay is one great actress, really believable as Olivia. I sometimes get tired of hearing about Stabler's personal problems bu I understand that the work definitely affects one's homelife and vicaversa. Of course, Sipowicz' tragic personal life was getting on my nerves too in NYPD so perhaps I am not being objective. chief
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 19, 2005 11:11:59 GMT -5
Howdy Chief~
Yea, Mariska is wonderful. I was so stoked when I heard she'd won the Golden Globe for best drama actress. She deserved it!
Yea some of Stabler's problems were kinda getting old, but his decent into darkness this season (ie. increasing violence and I don't give a crap about slamming a suspect against a wall) has really made me sit up and watch carefully. Plus, the story lines just keep getting better and better. Last nights episode with the twins, one made into a girl...that was just... AWESOME! Very dark story line, but that boy who played both his sister and the brother....he needs the "Parent Trap Award" for his acting. Great stuff!!
Ok, sorry, that really wasn't talking about CI season 4. Maybe CI's writers need to ask SVU's writers from some off-the-wall plot ideas...maybe pick this season up a little. Or are they the same writers for both shows? I don't think so, but I not sure.
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Post by trisha on Jan 19, 2005 12:02:25 GMT -5
They are not the same writers. The only thing the shows have in common is that they are both L&O's.
I don't want to kick the dead CI vs SVU horse again, but I have to say that I'm eternally grateful that CI and SVU have very little in common. Besides the fact that I deplore the type of melodrama that SVU is famous for, there is little to no mystery in SVU's plots. In fact, I have never watched an episode where I didn't feel I was being spoon fed clues, and then beaten over the head with them as Benson and Stabler continually head in the wrong direction.
I'm not saying that SVU is a horrible show, just that it is not in the same league as CI as far as the writing goes, and since the show's focus is on the characters and the shock value of the horrific crimes, it's really not even in the same genre. CI is a mystery show, where the focus lies mainly on the crime and what led to it, not the people solving it. I guess SVU is a procedural, but that's also what the original L&O is, and in that sense, SVU still doesn't quite fit the bill because of the excessive use of character driven plots.
I call SVU the Law & Order answer to NYPD Blue, and I have yet to find a valid argument against that assessment.
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js
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 143
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Post by js on Jan 19, 2005 13:25:06 GMT -5
I'm liking this season although I thought the VIEW FROM HERE had many more great possibilities than happened. Crooked construction people/crooked city inspectors/crooked homeowner's assoc. could have really rocked and been interesting. Instead Victor crawls up the maintenence shaft to stalk the woman who must have been falling down drunk and blind to get with him in the first place.
An aside: You probably recognized the boy/girl last night on SVU as the same young man from LOCI's HAPPY FAMILY.
js
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Post by Patcat on Jan 19, 2005 14:33:20 GMT -5
I thought that was the same young actor--he's very good. I hope he doesn't need any psychiatric help as he gets old (g).
I came to LOCI from my interest in Sherlock Holmes, and the types of mysteries/detective stories I've always enjoyed are ones where the detective's character is as interesting (if not more so) than the mystery. I like police procedurals as well, but not to the same extent. And I'm not a big fan of mysteries that are just puzzles. And all of that probably explains why I like LOCI. I find Goren an intriguing puzzle in and of himself.
I generally like SVU, especially Benson and Mariska Hagarity's playing of her. She's one of the best characters in the L&O universe (second only to Goren, IMHO), and certainly the best female character (I'd put Eames and Kathryn Erbe's performance right behind her). Munch and Finn are interesting, if a bit one note. I like Cragen, although he's occasionally a bit whiny. But Stabler--Stabler just scares me. Much more frightening than Goren. Nothing against Christopher Meloni's performance--it's very good--but the character isn't one of my favorites.
So, where were we--oh, LOCI 4th Season--I like it.
Patcat (boy, when I wander afield, I wander afield)
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 19, 2005 16:01:52 GMT -5
I agree with some of what you said Trish.
SVU does have shock value to its cases, which with dealing with sex crimes...how can you get away from that. I guess I'm just used to it, because I watch CSI as well.
But as far as there being spoon fed the clues and figuring out the cases, that is really the procedure for all the L&Os. Yes, I tend to figure out the cases about half way through the hour...but that is not restricted to SVU alone. CI is the same way, we follow Goren's lead through the cases, but the clues are still spooned to use through Goren's interpretation. Not much difference there. Thats not to say CI is not a great mystery, I most difinitely think it IS. But they all have a procedural aspect, and SVU and CI are no different.
Stabler does kinda scare me lately, but Goren has made me worried a few times as well...so no big surprise there.
I don't think we are bludgeoned over the head with the clues while Stabler and Benson go the wrong path. I think the audience is given the clues and hints in all the shows, most of us figuring out the case before the detectives get the final suspect into interrogation. Weather we are playing off Goren's theories, or getting play-by-play with the police in SVU, the out come is usually the same.
I mean come on... do you really start an episode (with the exception of some of the Nicole Wallace eps, and occationally some others) thinking Goren is NOT going to solve the case?? They all have some kind of predictability.
And I still Love Goren and CI the best, just to clarify. Mariska is definitely one of the best female cops ever, with Erbe coming in a close second.
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 19, 2005 16:19:28 GMT -5
And you are right Trish, SVU and CI are not in the same genre of crime dramas. Its been well documented that the focus on SVU would be on the detective's reaction to the crimes, as well as getting justice for the victims. CI is about the mystery and getting the case from the criminal's POV as well as through Goren's Sherlock-like interpretations. I was merely stating that SVU has been coming up with some very eye-popping and twisted episodes this season, as well as more character developments...which makes it a different horse in the L&O stable. Thats what it was advertised as, and thats what it's writers have done. I have no expectations that CI will follow SVU in diving deeper in the characters personal lives ect...and I hope it NEVER does that. If I want that, I'll watch SVU. I guess I was just venting a little on the blah-episodes of CI in the latter half of the season, that the plot writers needed to grab my attention again, like they did in SEMI-DETACHED, WANT, PERSON OF INTEREST ect. I've always liked the writing on CI, otherwise, I would be an avid fan and continue to watch my DVDs of past seasons. As for SVU being NYPD Blue for L&O, I haven't watched NYPD Blue since David Caruso left...(not that I'm a huge fan of his, I'm not), so that show is an unknown to me. Although Stabler is starting to remind me of Andy Sipowitz.
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Jan 19, 2005 16:24:53 GMT -5
Wow, I'm going to hush-up now. LOL! MEL LOOVVEES Criminal Intent's writers! I would send them sweets and highly caffinated drinks as offerings...if they would write more kick-butt episodes with Bobby lightening up like his season 2 self and Eames getting more spotlight time! *goes off to get sweets and highly caffinated drinks for CI writers*
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Post by chief on Jan 20, 2005 5:59:19 GMT -5
Hello Mel, All I can say is that you have missed some great (and a few not so great) and realistic crime dramas if you haven't watched NYPDBlue since Caruso left. I am (should read WAS) a great fan of Caruso when he was on NYPD and thought it a shame when he left. Let me say it once more...I can't stand him in CSIMiami. Of course, I can't stand any of the CSI series. chief
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