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Post by sarahlee on Oct 5, 2007 8:13:16 GMT -5
I wasn't thrilled with the aria either. Or who was ultimately guilty. Somehow it was all anti climatic. Is that because the personal drama is so taught & exciting? Good point...I think you may have something there. I was much more interested in watching Eames than catching Quinn's and Dutton's murderers.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 5, 2007 8:34:27 GMT -5
I'm glad so many people liked this episode. I like you people and feel smarter when people whose opinions I trust agree with me (I'm an insecure person(G)).
I suspect this was one of those LOCI episodes that just had too much going on in it, and something had to be sacrificed. What got sacrificed were the crimes and the solving of them. I thought the "aria" reasonably well acted by Mr. D'Onofrio and the young actor, but this was a very sad one that wasn't going to have a rousing conclusion.
But the part of the story that I really cared about--the one dealing with Eames and Goren--was superbly written and performed. Subtle, as I wrote before, but with great feeling. There were so many small things that felt so right, such as Eames' comment about not knowing and keeping in contact with the people who were her and her husband's friends. That happens so often when there's a death.
Quinn's partner--Cobo was it?--I have absolutely no sympathy for. By not acknowledging his medical condition, he was a danger on the job. He cheated on his wife (this, after showing his partner a photo of his son!), and did it while on duty. He lies about iding a witness (and what was he thinking about that--Didn't he realize he might be allowing his partner's murderer to get away?). And then he blames Goren when Goren is just doing his job--very well, I might add. I don't understand why the NYPD didn't slam down on Cobo--he's the one at fault here, not Goren.
I have to say, by the way, I'm not impressed by the characterization of the Chief of Detectives. Perhaps I'm naive in these things, but I don't think he'd be so quick to slam down on his detectives. I see this as a politically sensitive job, and the character is not depicted as such.
What really impressed me as I thought more about this episode was how professional both Eames and Goren were. Goren was in professional mode throughout this episode, no matter how much it hurt him when he had to go against Eames. And no residual angst from his mother's death or Brady's revelations, at least not that I could see.
I found Rodgers' blonde look a bit disconcerting.
Sorry for the long post.
Patcat
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Oct 5, 2007 8:46:49 GMT -5
Hey Pat ... good point about Quinn's partner (we don't like him so much that no one can remember his name!?!) He and the commisioner are the NYPD cops who make people in NY not like cops. We've seen this sort of attitude in many episodes... the "he's a viable suspect, let's lock him up." But thankfully for truth, justice and the american way Goren, Eames, and Ross are sensible ethical people who respect TRUTH. Loved all of Goren's righteous indignation about not locking up people who didn't actually commit the crime in question. And now that the dust has settled...I have to wonder how much of the conclusion/solving of the crime was spoiled by the fact that our little blogging, egg-salad eating extra friend told us weeks ago that the Doctor did it?... While there were strains to the believability of the situation, Goren and Eames have proved to the world that they are upright, forthright, professional, fair-minded cops. Although in the twisted world of law enforcement, I doubt they will really be seen as the good guys in the fallout from all this.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 5, 2007 8:48:25 GMT -5
I have to wait until Sunday to catch this one but I'm avidly reading the spoilers - Yep, I don't mind hearing the details beforehand. I've never watched the episode after hearing opinions about it so it makes for a different kind of viewing for me. Sounds like most people lked it.
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Post by ragincajun on Oct 5, 2007 9:12:15 GMT -5
Ok now for my comments. First I want to make comments on other comments. 1. Copa had problems, yes he was fooling around on work time, but was he cheating on his wife? Was he married? He had a son, but maybe he was divorced. 2. The Guy who played Victor, was the actor from Unblinking eye, Gio Perez. 3.Lynn A. Freedman who plays the gun expert CSU tech, should hook up with Goren, not Ross. She looks alot prettier on her IMDB page.
Ok my comments. 1. So glad they got rid of the fade to white, and music video. 2. Want the old theme song back. 3. Noticed they cut out, this is my life, and Ross saying" this doesn't look good" 4. Still obsessing over the blue strips on the dress blues, tried to count Eames' did she have 3 too? 5. But loved the episode as a total. Now two more weeks till another Goren and Eames episode.
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Post by madger on Oct 5, 2007 10:04:34 GMT -5
OK, granted I only watched it once and it was waaaay past my normal bedtime, but how could I have missed so much? I didn't even notice he called her Alex, I did get the tie clip joke and I did notice Rogers' hair though. My first impression: Good, not one of the top epis, but a solid one I can watch over and over, maybe it was just the anticipation was so great. Kate was magnificent, as we knew she would be. Loved that Goren was with-it, I was afraid they might over-do the emoting, but this show was clearly Eames' and VDO and the rest of the cast did a very nice job of supporting her role without overshadowing any of it. As far as the crime(s) it was kind of sad that the good guys were the bad guys and the bad guys were innocent. Goren needs a good aria in the interrogation room with a really bad perp, so he can say: "Shame on you, shame on you." I don't mind the music change, it's just not that important to me, as long as they keep the rest of the show's standards high, they can play Mr. Softie. I'll have to double my dose of Aderall and watch this again, and again, and again, and.....until my hubby is so sick of it he'll run screaming from the room ;D Well, I suppose I should get back to work, shucks.
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Post by DonnaJo on Oct 5, 2007 10:14:27 GMT -5
. First I want to make comments on other comments. 1. Copa had problems, yes he was fooling around on work time, but was he cheating on his wife? Was he married? He had a son, but maybe he was divorced. 2. The Guy who played Victor, was the actor from Unblinking eye, Gio Perez. 3.Lynn A. Freedman who plays the gun expert CSU tech, should hook up with Goren, not Ross. She looks alot prettier on her IMDB page. Ragin....I was just about to post about Copa possibly being a divorced Dad. Of course, hooking up while on duty is prohibited & it cost him his partner's life. I recognized the kid from The Unblinking Eye also. This was a better role for him, more meat. He did an excellent job. YES on the gun expert & Bobby hooking up. I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw who it was. She no beauty, but she's smart & feisty. A nice match for him.
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Post by musicwench on Oct 5, 2007 10:27:55 GMT -5
Just have to say, again, the new theme music is too slick sounding to me and it's more like the original than the one they had before, IMO. Then again I like edgier guitars and the rougher "rock" sound of the original LOCI theme. This one pretty much annoyed me because it sounded more like the other two when you take away the rougher elements.
I did, however, like the visuals in the opening. Movement! That was neat. Now if they give me back the music I will say it's a definite improvement.
I LOVE the new camera work. Gives it a Homicide: Life On The Streets feel. I liked it then, I like it now. Gives you a feeling of movement and things happening and urgency. The opening shot in the ER when Ross and Eames are running in as Quinn is brought in on a stretcher is very jerky and I know some people don't like that effect but to me it just adds to the implied chaos of the scene.
Such a wonderful episode. Watched it again this morning and still love it. I'm voting it very good. The only reason is as follows:
I still have trouble with the way Ross keeps letting both Goren and Eames remain involved in cases which are obviously too personal for them. I will overlook it for the sake of helping the story along but they shouldn't do it too often and certainly not two episodes in a row, I don't care if there was a summer break in between the two episodes or not.
Otherwise, it was grand.
The Goren and Eames interaction was perfect and not even close to being over-the-top as some (myself included) were concerned about. The way they conversed in the SUV on the way back from the visitation - with Bobby driving! - was well done. You get the idea that perhaps Eames isn't as much of an insider as one would have thought. They both seemed to feel shut out from the rest. Eames because of the awkwardness after her husband was killed and Goren because of the way it's revealed to him that the Chief of D's considers him a "whack job." I'm sure he wasn't completely blind to his reputation but no one probably ever would have said anything to his face. The way it came out was believable and the way he stood there looking hurt and upset was most excellently done.
You get the idea that Goren and Eames both feel cut off from their fellow officers at this moment. Very touching and very well done in that understated way that is so Goren and Eames. Perfection!
Loved the way Goren called Eames, Alex! It was so subtle that I had to rewind the tape to check to make sure I heard it for sure. I also get the idea that he does call her Alex from time to time but we're just not privy to it? I don't know for sure but it was momentous to me but it seemed to them just business as usual the way he said it.
This was one episode where I felt a little sympathy for all involved. There was no "evil" bad guy. Everyone had a redeeming quality despite their actions in the end. It was great the way Eames didn't get all sappy at the end and tell the doctor that the cop he shot all those years ago was her husband but that he was a good police officer.
If KE doesn't get an Emmy nod, I'll officially swear off the Emmy Awards. She was so excellent. The way she kept right on the verge of breaking down while confronting Goren about investigating her husband's murder, her moment of weakness in the evidence room when she's alone with the evidence box from Joe's murder, the look she had on her face as she called to Quinn's widow in the emergency room, the way she stood there looking at the picture of Joe and her and Teresa and Kevin at the visitation, the way she held Teresa's hand as they discussed why Teresa had lost touch with her. Oh my the woman made me cry!!!
Goren with Copa, Quinn's partner was also grand. Loved the tie clip bit! Loved the way he noticed from the get-go that Copa wasn't telling the entire truth. Classic Goren when he also called him on his vision and therefore questionable visual ID of the murderer. So much to love!
Oh and also Goren pacing outside Ross' office while waiting for Ross to decide whether or not to let Eames continue on the case. He looked like he really wanted to be in there to help her. LOL Just like a little kid waiting for mom to hurry up so they can go home or something.
I have to watch it again to find more things but those are the highlights.
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Post by Summerfield on Oct 5, 2007 10:44:47 GMT -5
Fine premiere episode. After watching again this morning, I have a clearer picture of the crimes. I'm always anticipating that certain something from Goren. Last night I was not denied! Tie-clips, puzzles, whack job! I loved his subtle tenacity in this episode. I loved his slow burn up to the outburst directed toward Copa. Again, we saw how he'll seek the truth no matter how painful the truth may be. Add me to those who loved Eames' restraint when confronted with Delgado and again with Dr. Manny. Good stuff. We all know how scenes like that can play out. Rogers reminded me of the crazy brother in "Gemini." Add Spanish to Goren's list of languages.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 5, 2007 11:15:23 GMT -5
I think we all know Eames had to stay on the case for the sake of the story--in real life I can't imagine she'd be allowed to be officially on the case. Unofficially, maybe. Perhaps Ross felt he owed her and that's why he kept her on the case.
I'm so glad that Kathryn Erbe got this part and kept acting. Marvelous performance.
Patcat
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Post by deathroe on Oct 5, 2007 12:30:28 GMT -5
he does use her first name from time to time, we just weren't privy to it.
There was something very touching about it, as though it were a product of all that they had gone through. Ship or no ship, I thought the way Bobby G treated Alex was very sweet and that the interaction between them was very real. Sometimes you just want the support of the other person but to be alone at the same time, if that makes any sense, and I had the sense watching that that was what the partners were being to each other.
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Post by nwchimom on Oct 5, 2007 13:11:18 GMT -5
I've been without power for 11 hours...it was so hard to be away from the discussion this morning! Well, power has been restored, and ComEd better thank its lucky stars this didn't happen last night for the premiere.
One thing I noticed last night: when Goren heard the injured officer's name, Quinn, he asked Eames if it was the same...and trailed off. So Bobby and Alex have discussed personal details of her life (her husband, her husband's partner, probably Joe's murder). Interesting that Eames has shared with Bobby, but Bobby's personal details only seem to come out during cases.
Although I had no power this morning, I did have The Breakup from Netflix and a portable DVD player with a rechargeable battery. So I popped it in and saw Vince Vaughn make the whack job face VDO made last night! That right there was the best part of the movie.
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lodi
Rookie
Posts: 20
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Post by lodi on Oct 5, 2007 13:18:39 GMT -5
And, we're back!!! Finally a new episode. I loved that Goren - who I was a bit worried about when I saw the promo of him sitting on the kitchen floor - is back and pulled together. He looks a bit rough (I would say he's gained 40 pounds, is pale, and a bit more grey) but he's back on his game. And even though you could tell the "whack job" comment stung a bit, it doesn't deter him from seeking the truth. He's gotta be Goren.
Anyone on this board could no doubt describe the tie clip.
I liked Eames in this episode too, they are rounding out her character. The part where she is sniffing the husband's shirt tears your heart out. Her responses to the way the investigation was unfolding were totally realistic, and I liked that she was in the end able to set her emotions aside.
I hate that Goren called her Alex, if it is to be taken in a romantic way and not just a compassionate way. I have never heard the term "shipping" before, but I guess I am the anti-shipper. Such a cop-out in movies and programming that the lead characters must have some romantic interlude. And to me, knowing these characters, it isn't believable. Honestly, if they hook up, I will turn my TV off, barf, and get back to my real life.
I loved the scene with Goren pacing outside office like a kid while Eames was in conversation with Captain Ross. It sort of sums up the whole dynamic!
Lodi
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Post by Metella on Oct 5, 2007 13:22:00 GMT -5
I also got the impression that the opening music was changed a little in order to further delineate CI from the others .... I neither like it more or less; but I think I am glad it has changed for this season - this show went through some major changes & needed to be a little different.
I thought the characters were the most true to their original selves that they have been in a long time! Alright!. I thought the story was weak and obvious - but solid enough. I thought the two women sitting on the couch and the first one saying to Eames that she was ashamed & why & also why she had not kept in touch to be a great scene - acted & written. Been a long time since I could say that about a CI scene.
I liked that Goren was using his "reputation" and making fun of himself instead of wallowing in self-pity - I was almost to the point of getting ticked off when they had the kid giving him that negative info - thought he was going to have a pity party or something - very glad he did not.
So - I didn't think it was stellar; but it didn't have the teasing/sexful/stalker cam and it kept the characters more in line with what I think they would be if they had been real people in Season 1.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 5, 2007 13:22:08 GMT -5
The "Alex" seemed totally appropriate to me. I suspect Bobby only calls her by her first name when it's just the two of them and he needs to reach her.
Patcat (I am working today...really!)
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