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Post by Metella on Oct 5, 2007 13:27:00 GMT -5
Oh- I just saw the egg-salad comment .... so if it helps you feel better - I never read that thread at all - I had no idea and even farther than that - I was not going to schedule CI into my life - and I am not kidding - I was channel surfing when I saw it was starting - so I watched it with NO IDEA of anything.
I knew all along that I was only seeing red herrings - it was all too smooth and pat. The second I knew of the doctor's existance, I knew he had done it - just not all the details. I did like that he did this by accident and tried to atone.
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Post by nonmanis on Oct 5, 2007 13:34:51 GMT -5
Yes the new episode was great, both actors had my attention, but VDO's weight gain was disturbing, I'm a nurse and it's scarry for me, I know he is way over 6 foot, but it is not healthy to gain all that weight. Glad that he and Kathryn are back. Great actors
nonmanis
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Oct 5, 2007 13:37:43 GMT -5
Interesting that when we do finally get Goren calling Eames "Alex" when addressing her (we've had it in two other episodes, Faith and Baggage, but he was always introducing her to other people in those) it's in the morgue in the presence of Rogers... who when we saw her last was dealing with a crying Logan.
But I'm with everyone who loved the subtle, gentleness of it. Actually I didn't notice it on first viewing when I was watching my tape of the show (had to work a stupid rock concert till midnight) and then when I tuned into to the repeat airing at 1 am on USA I finally noticed it, at which point I had to back my tape up at the end and confirm I'd really heard it...
The new improved Goren... he drives, he calls her by her first name... (hee hee). They'll proabably never win any awards, since subtlety isn't usually recognized by those people that give out awards, but Vincent and Kathryn deserve something for their pitch perfect relationship...
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Oct 5, 2007 13:55:04 GMT -5
Oh, and one last thing for today... I was poking around various boards looking at various comments about this eppy and someone mentioned Narcotics, and whether Goren might have worked with Joe, or at least know OF him... and I wondered if maybe that might lend some weight to Goren's question to Alex at the hospital "Isn't that the Quinn who..." If they both worked narcotics, then theoretically Goren might know the details of that case not from Alex but from working in/for the same department.
Ok, must get back to work...
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eames47
Silver Shield Investigator
"What are they saying now???"
Posts: 173
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Post by eames47 on Oct 5, 2007 15:13:39 GMT -5
I, too, loved this episode. I think I'm with a bunch of people, when I say that I think either Goren knew of Joe because he worked with him, or because in the past, he and Eames had spoken of him. If Goren didn't have this previous knowledge of Eames and Joe together, I think Goren would have referred to Joe as 'your husband' more. Instead, when he's talking about the cigarette, he says, 'well, it wasn't Minaya's and it wasn't Joe's'. It suggests he had a more personal knowledge of the situation. Not 'it wasn't Minaya's and it wasn't your husband's'. I don't know, am I making sense? Maybe not. And how did he know it wasn't Joe's, unless he knew Joe didn't smoke.
I liked this though. I liked that it's obvious to me now, that once the camera's stop rolling, Eames and Goren have more of a partner relationship than we see. We don't need to see them go to each other's apartments or out to dinner (platonically) to either discuss the case or each other's lives....but I think it happens. In Endgame, Eames was the link between Ross and Goren in the end. (Ross asking if the funeral arrangements had been made. How would Eames know, unless she was in touch with Goren?) Now, we see Goren be the supportive one, in many scenes in this episode. I loved it.
And the uber-fan in me loved the 'Alex' bit, the tie bit, the whack job bit and don't get me started on the 'don't you mean Detective Eames?' bit! I just wish my cable hadn't decided to crap out in the middle of the conversation in the car. But, I'll catch that the next time it airs.
Oh, and lastly. I noticed a repeat offender that I don't think anyone's mentioned yet. Minaya's sister was in Pas de Deux. She was Ernie's ex. Who couldn't believe Ernie would suicide himself.
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spits
Detective
Posts: 224
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Post by spits on Oct 5, 2007 15:34:33 GMT -5
Well said, and I agree - my only criticism is that the crime itself seemed pretty obvious, but as was mentioned by other members in this post I think they tried to rush to a resolution too quickly. Perhaps that's just a consequence of the fact that it's a TV show, not a movie...but yes, the personal drama was very subtle and superbly acted (much more compelling than the crime itself, in my opinion). I look forward to re-watching this one and I agree that the changes made to the opener, camera angles, etc. (which I liked) seem to be a means of separating it from the other Law & Orders.
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Post by DonnaJo on Oct 5, 2007 15:40:06 GMT -5
... I was poking around various boards looking at various comments about this eppy and someone mentioned Narcotics, and whether Goren might have worked with Joe, or at least know OF him... That was me. ;D
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Post by addicted2vdosgoren on Oct 5, 2007 15:40:52 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the episode.
Echoing most here, I was very happy to hear Goren call Eames "Alex"
I also loved how Goren got annoyed when the evidence guy referred to Eames as lady, so Goren got in his face with "Lady? You mean Detective Eames..." GO Bobby!
KE was awesome. Her scenes with the widow were great and her talk with Goren as he drove was so well done.
Great confrontation between Goren and Copa(?). I love when Bobby gets angry.
I thought it was a nice touch to see Goren sort of brace himself - turning away from the photos from Joe's murder he was pinning up on the board - as Eames entered the room. He knew she was not going to be happy with what he was doing, but he also knew it had to be done.
On a shallow note, I wasn't crazy about Goren heavy scruff when those first pics came out, but seeing him last night especially when he arrived at the hospital - he looked damn hot! And I was kinda disappointed he shaved for the next scene lol
I wish I knew what Goren said in Spanish during this episode (I think he spoke Spanish once before in "Acts of Contrition"?)
Oh, one last thing... nice to see Bobby bring some snark, in the scene with the chief of detectives.
Chief: Since when is a cop not a reliable witness? Goren: When he can't see clearly.
Chief: That's hardly airtight [the suspect's alibi] Goren: Ok well then, we should charge him based on a lie, I think. (the way he added "I think" just had me lol)
I really hope the ratings are solid - USA is pulling out all the stops for our CI.
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untitled
Detective
Stuff the Fluff! Save Goren & Eames!
Posts: 274
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Post by untitled on Oct 5, 2007 15:49:15 GMT -5
No, the camera work was awful! I hated the jerkiness, and the quick-zoom. I had to turn away several times as my motion sickness acted up. I loved the OLD theme song...it was the best of the bunch and I wish they hadn't changed it. - I didn't care for it either. It's almost like they tried to make the scene take a faster pace but instead it turned out in the reverse. They've done it a few times on SVU, but I hope it doesn't stick and be come a regular thing for CI. The only jumpy editing I saw was in the skateboard park scene, which I have to admit I wasn't fond of. - I felt that scene was totally un-needed in this episode. Other than to show the kid's skate board at the scene of the crime. Which I felt was just kind of a cheap way to let us know who did the deed. Come on CI don't be cheap like that. I also have other problems involving credibility with this episode, the most obvious and glaring one being how Eames was allowed to stay involved in the investigation into the murder of her late husband's partner when she was so emotionally involved in the case. But then again, CI hasn't always concerned itself with accuracy in this type of detail. Looking at CI over the course of the past 6 seasons, one would get the impression that MCS investigates homicides to the exclusion of almost anything else, which in the real world is not the case. - Quite true, before I became a fan of the show I often wondered why all they did was solve homicides. But this is television and you know how shows like to take creative licenses for more entertaining and emotional purposes. (take for instance CSI, I mean come on Scientist-Cop's are you kidding me? ) Also I don't think Goren should have been involved in finding his partner, but it did make for great television. As I have mentioned before I hated the new theme song, it's TBJ's theme. So why switch it? I did like the cool animations in the intro titles, though. But, I think if they had to have redone the intro theme it should have been completely redone, instead of just ripping off TBJ's theme and style and slapping it onto CI. I guess they feel it's okay because TBJ is off the air. But I dont think it fit's CI at all. Perhaps it's their way of showing that CI will be a more fast paced show this season? It was good to see some of the MC squad outside of 1PP, Bobby in his kitchen (which looked quite 60's to me) and kind of messy. And Ross playing cards with the higher ups. As other's have mentioned I hated Roger's blonde hair, it's just as horrible as Novak with blonde hair both women look so much better with red hair. I'd say it's about time Bobby called Eames by her first name. I highly doubt it's the first time, but it's good to actually see it on screen. As PatCat mentioned that G/E had a sort of role reversal in this episode, did you notice Goren driving instead of Eames on the way back from the funeral? And how about that conversation they have. Totally depressing. They seem like to very lonely people from that conversation. Anyone notice the Cragen look alike in the MC squad room? He walks by the screen while G/E is talking to a cop about the 86 Korean gang. I loved Eames in this episode, she kept her maiden name that's something I would have expected her to do. And I know this is kind of stupid but I had thought (from the promo) that Eames was wearing some god awful white dress to Quinn's funeral when in fact it was just her dress uniform shirt. Totally awesome that she wore her uniform the funeral.
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Post by deathroe on Oct 5, 2007 16:06:21 GMT -5
I don't think that this was the same TBJ theme that I've heard before (I own the series). The instrumentation in that version was IMO simply thrilling. **
Yes, they are lonely people who work a lot, but to me they are very true to life. I am sociable, but this is one of the reasons that I identify with them!
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Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Oct 5, 2007 16:09:15 GMT -5
Thinking about it more today, I have only one problem with the episode.
Ok, I know that in real life Eames would never have been allowed on this case. It would have been a conflict of interest on so many levels. Having said that, it was the evidence locker scene that bothers me. I loved the "whack job" and the head thing...so very,very funny. My problem is with Goren leaving her to get the box of evidence, alone. I know that he had to go, but he could have stayed a few minutes more. She had to do this by herself...I thought it was insensitive...
The scene with her going through the box, could have been done with someone present. She could have altered evidence and kept the man she thought was guilty, in jail. I know things are cataloged but things get lost...
Goren was so great with her the whole episode and leaving her to deal with it alone bothered me.
I had a friend go through a similar situation and I saw her deal with that pain. A wife alone with the things her husband last had on...to smell his shirt. My girlfriend did the same thing. I started crying last nite, because I hadn't thought of it in years.
So it is not a biggie. Just a thought.
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Post by deathroe on Oct 5, 2007 16:17:50 GMT -5
To me, there's more subtlety in some of those little scenes of VDO's or KE's than in almost anything you see on TV these days. One of my favorite moments is the scene with Jimmy in "Brother's Keeper." Just watch her face, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
VDO was using very different intonation in his scenes with Eames/Erbe than he usually does. The "No!" in the first scene, the "We have to do this!"--very different than how he usually talks to her, almost like a parent with a child or a couple. I find their interaction more compelling (again) than most things on television.
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eames47
Silver Shield Investigator
"What are they saying now???"
Posts: 173
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Post by eames47 on Oct 5, 2007 16:34:13 GMT -5
I agree. I'm very glad they cut out the 'this is my life' line. You didn't need it. Kate used her eyes to say that line. She's amazing.
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Post by hannah on Oct 5, 2007 16:46:59 GMT -5
Thinking about it more today, I have only one problem with the episode. Ok, I know that in real life Eames would never have been allowed on this case. It would have been a conflict of interest on so many levels. Having said that, it was the evidence locker scene that bothers me. I loved the "whack job" and the head thing...so very,very funny. My problem is with Goren leaving her to get the box of evidence, alone. I know that he had to go, but he could have stayed a few minutes more. She had to do this by herself...I thought it was insensitive... The scene with her going through the box, could have been done with someone present. She could have altered evidence and kept the man she thought was guilty, in jail. I know things are cataloged but things get lost... Goren was so great with her the whole episode and leaving her to deal with it alone bothered me. I had a friend go through a similar situation and I saw her deal with that pain. A wife alone with the things her husband last had on...to smell his shirt. My girlfriend did the same thing. I started crying last nite, because I hadn't thought of it in years. So it is not a biggie. Just a thought. I'm sorry about what happened to your friend, first off. But there are some people who want to mourn alone and there are those who need the comfort from other people. IMO Eames doesn’t like to be so vulnerable in front of people and I think Goren knew that and left her to deal with something that was so personal. Anyway I loved the episode and I'm back. I'll say more later.
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Post by deathroe on Oct 5, 2007 17:01:13 GMT -5
IMO Eames doesn’t like to be so vulnerable in front of people and I think Goren knew that and left her to deal with something that was so personal.
Yes--I feel like that's exactly how that was played. I thought it was a more true-to-life choice, and more true to her character, even when I felt like he should just give her a hug or something, dammit!
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