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Post by Techguy on Mar 30, 2010 22:05:23 GMT -5
Random thoughts on first viewing:
1--The crime did absolutely nothing for me. 2--At least they didn't turn Ross into a turncoat dirty cop. 3--I haven't seen so many guns and so much firepower since I was in the Army. 4--'Where the heck did they test fire that heat seeking missile or whatever it was? This is New York post-9/11 isn't it? 5--Goren tries to hug Eames to console her but she shakes her head no and he backs off.
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Post by peterinmanhattan on Mar 30, 2010 22:29:43 GMT -5
I was confused to all heck as to the nature of the crime. There were way too many characters it seemed. I think a two-hour airing would've aided in alleviating this confusion, but I'm not the one who make the decisions. I feel as though as soon as Nichols appeared on scene all the energy was sucked out of Goren. He seemed to take a back seat in the second part of the episode. I also felt that Ross's murder happened very fast. Techguy- It looked like someplace rather well deserted. Although it seems implausible, it could've been an industrial location not habituated. It seemed to be by the water too. And yes, I'm quite glad Ross was undercover rather than being dirty. I must rewatch this and try and parse some more information from it.
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Post by Techguy on Mar 30, 2010 22:47:18 GMT -5
Back @peter: Count me in as very very confused. For me the life was sucked out of the episode when Ross was murdered, which reinforces what you said about it happening so fast. So much time was spent with the crime at sea details, the dual murders of the engaged couple, and the endless parade of characters involved, I feel Ross' death was almost treated as an afterthought.
As far as this premiere episode dinner goes, there were too many sugar and carb laden side dishes for my taste. The main course entree was overlooked. By the time Nichols arrived, I breathed a sigh of relief to see someone more familiar as a diversion from the assorted bad guys and their fascination with guns.
Even if the location was deserted, the shooting off that giant phallic symbol is beyond implausible. Someone somewhere must have seen or heard something, a fire and explosion in the distance perhaps? I haven't been to New York lately, but surely the residents haven't become so jaded, so used to the noise and violence that they would ignore what amounted to a mini supernova.
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Post by Moonbeam on Mar 30, 2010 22:47:51 GMT -5
Confused doesn't even cover it.
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Post by tere on Mar 30, 2010 23:02:33 GMT -5
Secondary characters were being killed off faster than I could identify them and their part in the plot. To me, it would have made more sense to start with Ross' death and work back to discover who was behind it.
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Post by peterinmanhattan on Mar 30, 2010 23:14:02 GMT -5
Hahaha as someone who is finishing up his bachelor's degree in English, I was immediately drawn to the phallic nature of the missile launcher. As a matter of fact, it could be an allegory for the whole episode: whether it was the cruise boat shooting down the innocent "pirates;" the man with the missile launcher; or the FBI trumping the NYPD's investigation, it was all about who could most flaunt their power the best.
I totally agree with you though Techguy, it is about 99 percent unlikely that someone heard that massive explosion.
Also, did anyone find the interim captain a bit annoying? Maybe it's my snobbery from being on my prep school's debate team, but his voice was so hard to understand. While it's honourable to cast actors with speech impediments, I felt he could've used a bit more vocal coaching.
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Post by annabelleleigh on Mar 30, 2010 23:22:57 GMT -5
Mercenaries; dictators; undercover FBI investigations; bombs, gunfire and blood; secrets within secrets; plots within plots -- all to announce that this is A Big Important Episode. Yet it's all kitchen sink stuff. Barely a scintilla of human interest. Barren of subtext. Writer Walon Green, you disappointed me.
Perhaps it was all of the well-circulated pre-show spoilers -- though I assiduously tried to avoid them -- but there wasn't a single surprise in this episode. Oh, yes -- I agree -- save one: How could the arms dealers blow off that enormous tank gun anywhere in North America without drawing attention? Not only did the scene not advance the story, it undermined its credibility.
So now, in part 2, Goren apparently goes off the reservation (again) and is suspended (again). Yawn. And without a captain to protect him ("Goren has become a liability"), he likely becomes (as speculated) the "innocent man" hauled off on a charge of say, interfering with a federal investigation. Eames quits the NYPD. Nobody's happy. The end.
And since D'Onofrio has recently announced that he's no longer interested in being a toaster for GE, that end is all we'll likely ever see of Detective Robert Goren.
I guess this is how Logan fans felt when Mikey was exiled to Staten Island.
AL
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Post by Techguy on Mar 30, 2010 23:23:28 GMT -5
That annoying guy with the garbled speech is the interim captain??? I couldn't for the life of me figure out who that was.
You're right Peter. A giant phallic symbol is an allegory for the entire episode's theme of the flaunting of power--starting with the circumstances of the cast upheaval I have no doubt. Are the writers and/or PTB not-so-subtly telling fans "You're f****d!"?
Now I see the irony of this episode's "new" title in another context.
ETA: You're spot on too AL.
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Post by peterinmanhattan on Mar 31, 2010 0:07:17 GMT -5
One saving grace of this episode: the return of the title cards!!!! The first fifteen minutes (before things aggressively spiralled downward) of seeing classic Goren and Eames and titles cards made me have to smack myself back into the reality that this is their END. I hope the title cards remain for the rest of season nine. So then are we to assume Eames is the one promoted, now that "unstable" Goren is pulled through the cross-hares of the higher-ups againnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Honestly the lack of originality boggles my mind. I can only hope that part two in some ways adds some clarity or reason to the mess that is the first part.
I'm currently re-watching the cold open. Just from appearances, it seems they shot off that missile launcher in the same place where the car pulled up in the beginning with the two dead bodies in it. Last season, I tried to investigate some of their filming locations. The weather here in New York has been downright nasty of late with lots of rain and cold winds, but perhaps as things get nicer I'll try to check things out.
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Post by Jefferaldo on Mar 31, 2010 0:30:47 GMT -5
Nice spot Pete! The title cards are back! I almost forgot about that.
I thought the acting in the episode was great. From VDO, KE, to JG. Also enjoyed seeing David Zayas.
The storyline was definitely convoluted but again, I'll reserve my judgment until after Part 2 has aired and every has been cleared up.
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Post by darmok on Mar 31, 2010 1:12:45 GMT -5
OK, I must have been watching a different episode because I loved it! Yes, there were a lot of things going on and it was hard to follow, but I've always had to rewatch the best episodes to figure everything out (there were a few seasons where most pf the episodes were not as complicated - and not as good). I thought everything fit so far; I've rewatched it once.
I liked that we saw Rodgers' reaction. It was brief, and I liked that also.
I liked that the interim captain was backing them up, but I have my suspicions. And we know he won't be the permanent captain.
I liked that it was a GE episode until Ross' murder. Of course Nichols would be involved after that. So, Nichols is more high-tech than Goren. No screwdriver, just a 16 GB drive. Now, we know that Goren's not extremely comfortable with technology, but Eames should have found a drive (not a criticism, just an observation; actually I liked that scene).
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Mar 31, 2010 7:38:19 GMT -5
OK, I must have been watching a different episode because I loved it! Yes, there were a lot of things going on and it was hard to follow, but I've always had to rewatch the best episodes to figure everything out (there were a few seasons where most pf the episodes were not as complicated - and not as good). I thought everything fit so far; I've rewatched it once. I liked that we saw Rodgers' reaction. It was brief, and I liked that also. I liked that the interim captain was backing them up, but I have my suspicions. And we know he won't be the permanent captain. I liked that it was a GE episode until Ross' murder. Of course Nichols would be involved after that. So, Nichols is more high-tech than Goren. No screwdriver, just a 16 GB drive. Now, we know that Goren's not extremely comfortable with technology, but Eames should have found a drive (not a criticism, just an observation; actually I liked that scene). I liked it too, Darmok. I didn't understand it, but I'll happily watch it again to figure it all out. I don't know how I feel about the return of the time cards. It's like they're saying, "Look, it really is L&O still!" It's like a bribe to keep watching.
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Post by tere on Mar 31, 2010 8:01:29 GMT -5
I did like the crime scene after Ross's death. Also the temporarily-in-charge lieutenant's reactions to the FBI -- "I didn't get that memo" and "stay right here until I read this".
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Mar 31, 2010 8:34:26 GMT -5
Mercenaries; dictators; undercover FBI investigations; bombs, gunfire and blood; secrets within secrets; plots within plots -- all to announce that this is A Big Important Episode. Yet it's all kitchen sink stuff. Barely a scintilla of human interest. Barren of subtext. Writer Walon Green, you disappointed me. AL Actually, AL, Walon Green is the one who wrote "All In" and "Alpha Dog," both pretty bad episodes. So if you were upset by the episode's quality, that's really the norm for him. I on the other hand, really liked it.
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Post by aintnocrime on Mar 31, 2010 8:48:53 GMT -5
OK, I must have been watching a different episode because I loved it! Yes, there were a lot of things going on and it was hard to follow, but I've always had to rewatch the best episodes to figure everything out (there were a few seasons where most pf the episodes were not as complicated - and not as good). I thought everything fit so far; I've rewatched it once. I liked that we saw Rodgers' reaction. It was brief, and I liked that also. I liked that the interim captain was backing them up, but I have my suspicions. And we know he won't be the permanent captain. I liked that it was a GE episode until Ross' murder. Of course Nichols would be involved after that. So, Nichols is more high-tech than Goren. No screwdriver, just a 16 GB drive. Now, we know that Goren's not extremely comfortable with technology, but Eames should have found a drive (not a criticism, just an observation; actually I liked that scene). I'm with you in that I enjoyed it. However, I was glad my husband was watching with me (he normally isn't ... night shift), as he is a big fan of the Bourne-type thrillers and can keep casts of thousands straight in his head. I had to keep asking him, "Who was that guy again?" I couldn't figure out the interim captain's accent. Foreign? Elmer Fudd? I'm biased, admittedly, but VDO is one of those actors who is so compelling that you don't want to blink and miss something. Not so with Goldblum. Also, liked that the Goren lean showed up and that the title cards were back. Next week worries me, but at least Goren wasn't the one killed.
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