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Post by aintnocrime on Apr 2, 2010 18:29:15 GMT -5
As we have come to the flnal hours of Goren after eight years, I'll just throw in my opinion. The small glimpses of Classic Bobby were at best bittersweet: the hangar craziness, the scene-of-the-crime confrontation with the FBI at Ross's death - all reminders to me of why we had fallen in love with Goren back in the day. The last sad fizzes of the sparks that used to fly. Which brings me to The Lean. Such a tired pantomime of the first Lean. Look, I don't know that I personally felt manipulated, but I know exactly what DonnaJo is driving at. To me it was charmingly sad, perfunctory schtick: VDO's 'sweet nod to the fans' sounds hopelessly wishful and romanticized to me. Whether it was VDO's idea or the director's or Walon Green's or DW's or the key grip's, I read it as little hommage to the famous first quirk that has ever since been Goren's trademark. The Lean deserves a nod to itself, I think. It was the Eureka! moment for Rene Balcer, who says it was just exactly when VDO did the Gumby bend that he knew the show would be a hit. And we know that The Lean was a purely reflexive move on VDO's part, just getting in the face of an actor who wouldn't meet his gaze. That one incredibly weird and lucky stroke of instinct, of unscripted ( arrogant, in a way) reaction became a signature. Ironic, I think, that this last Lean was so tentative, so creaky, so un-quirky, so removed from that first hilarious, supple flop. To me it is an appropriate marker of the End of Goren Days. And perhaps not a moment too soon. I think this is brilliant. I loved that the lean was there, but having run today to one of the old episodes with an Energetic Lean, I understand McCaffrey's point. There's a certain melancholy feeling, sort of like when you see a legendary musician or athlete and wonder if this is the last time you'll see him play his signature song or have that last at-bat.
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 2, 2010 18:37:07 GMT -5
And if the tone of that post wasn't so caustic...it reminds me of someone...
And for Pete's sake...there's a lot more to focus on in this episode than one freaking lean! So much went on...so much is going to happen.
Hassan's grandfather was called the "Mad Mullah"...I hope we'll find out more. The Sword of Damocles figures into this, and no one even cares about these references. After all the talk in the past about taking apart the finer points...even while smiling and giving a pass to some of the not-so-fine points.
So far what I have seen has been a good episode. There may be things I wish were different...like Ross having a little more "face" time before he got a hole blown in his chest...but all in all, I'm not going to sit here and pick the lean to death. It was a sweet gesture, no matter where it came from. We could just leave it at that.
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Post by aintnocrime on Apr 2, 2010 19:21:45 GMT -5
And if the tone of that post wasn't so caustic...it reminds me of someone... And for Pete's sake...there's a lot more to focus on in this episode than one freaking lean! So much went on...so much is going to happen. Hassan's grandfather was called the "Mad Mullah"...I hope we'll find out more. The Sword of Damocles figures into this, and no one even cares about these references. After all the talk in the past about taking apart the finer points...even while smiling and giving a pass to some of the not-so-fine points. So far what I have seen has been a good episode. There may be things I wish were different...like Ross having a little more "face" time before he got a hole blown in his chest...but all in all, I'm not going to sit here and pick the lean to death. It was a sweet gesture, no matter where it came from. We could just leave it at that. Re. your first paragraph, I'm not sure what you mean, but I don't think I have the equivalent background knowledge. I was just responding to her overall point. Sure, there are tons of plot points to parse, but I guess it's Goren's idiosyncrasies that are fun to look for as he makes his final bow. Upon further reflection, though, I prefer the Bourne stuff to stay in the Bourne movies. I liked the episode, but it was very out of character for the overall show.
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 2, 2010 23:19:34 GMT -5
Oh I didn't think it was out of character so much as different from the norm. And flash is what TV is all about these days. Re: your other question...check your messages.
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Post by idget on Apr 3, 2010 17:05:48 GMT -5
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I did want to briefly put in my 2 cents. This has been a very hard week for me for reasons other than this being the last of my LOCI. In fact, Tuesday was probably one of the worst days of my life, but one of the few things that gave me a smile was that little Goren lean. I appreciated it more than I could explain. As to the rest of the episode I will have to watch it again and be in a better place before I decide if it is a worthy send off to my two favorite TV characters.
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Apr 3, 2010 18:49:53 GMT -5
Oh, Idget, I'm so sorry you had a crummy day. I'm glad Bobby's lean was able to make you feel a bit better.
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Post by tere on Apr 5, 2010 8:08:07 GMT -5
I watched it again over the weekend. When I didn't have to put so much effort into identifying the body count, the episode was better than I originally thought.
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 5, 2010 11:37:10 GMT -5
Idget, I'm also sorry to hear that you are feeling bad, and I am glad that you found some comfort with VDO's gesture. After re-watching the episode, I found quite a few really excellent moments: Bobby's heartfelt emotion and subsequent anger at Ross' crime scene, Ross reluctantly sniffing the concoction from the dead man's stomach in the morgue, and especially Erbe's "we don't have time" snark - it's about time someone told him that. He needs to stop torturing himself. Soemtimes bad things just happen.
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Post by annabelleleigh on Apr 5, 2010 12:13:04 GMT -5
YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE LEAN? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? Well rest easy then. You only have one more episode to suffer through. Reposted above are two examples of why I've been absent from CI-US. The civility and collegiality that once made this site a pleasure in which to participate have gone out the window, thanks to a few bitter people who can't handle change. Somewhat off-topic but still (in my mind) germane: From recent VDO news on the Reelblog it seems that our star is having a thoroughly enjoyable life post-CI. He has a good marriage; beautiful children (one for whom he's creating a movie); a warm, spacious, well-designed home; and lots of work in the indie film world whence he came to television. He's doing charity work he obviously believes in, which also allows him the freedom to goof around as an outrageously non-Goren character. In addition, he seems as financially secure as almost any actor (with years of hefty paychecks and a percentage of CI as a lovely parting gift). Hurray for VDO I say. Still some fans can't let go of Bobby Goren -- and some here are so unable to contain their anger they must lash out at other members. I am sad. I am disappointed. And I wish the mods would step in, for the sake of those of us who would like to keep up a (lively, intelligent, critical, fun) conversation about CI post-Goren. AL
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 5, 2010 13:15:35 GMT -5
Beautifully put, Annabelle. As usual, you expressed exactly how I have been feeling. I almost didn't post my latest comments, expecting negativism to follow. This is not what I am used to here.
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Post by Patcat on Apr 5, 2010 15:15:20 GMT -5
We have been sniping at each other more than a bit. I blame stress. Remember, folks, it's only a TV show.
Al--You're right. Mr. D'Onofrio looks very good and happy. He deserves it, because he had a lot to do with the creation of a character whose story has gotten me through some rough stuff these past years.
Patcat
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Post by peterinmanhattan on Apr 5, 2010 15:22:22 GMT -5
Excellent, AL couldn't have put it better myself. I was so put off by the behaviour of a few posters last fall that I decided to abstain from posting until the new season began
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 5, 2010 18:37:14 GMT -5
For the record, I think Vincent is insanely happy now and he is well rid of the folks at USA/NBCU. I am only sorry it went down the way it did.
Anger? Oh yeah. At the network.
And my response was in direct response to this:
It was an entirely fair response. If you want to quibble about my response, then perhaps you should also quibble with the remark that prompted it. Fair enough?
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lovesong
Silver Shield Investigator
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Post by lovesong on Apr 5, 2010 21:14:16 GMT -5
Personally, I shook my head at the lean, b/c it appeared to me to be a blatant, cheap gimmick. They were probably aiming for nostalgia, but to my way of thinking, they missed the mark. I thought the thumb drive line was the highlight of the episode. That was CI of old, just a different actor delivering the line, which I admit to being ambivalent about. :shrug: I liked the actor playing the bald bad guy, Vansomething. He quietly commanded his scenes with a strong screen presence, I thought. I am so tired of the FBI being villainous; such a boring cliche. The explosion was laughable for the reasons already mentioned; especially post 9/11, firing mini scud missiles in NYC is just completely ludicrous. I thought Goren and Ross were both phoning it in. I am guessing that stems from what I gather was being summarily sacked by the network. I guess I'd have a hard time giving my best work under those circumstances too. I have never really been an Eames fan, but she was the only one of the three that even appeared to care anymore. Probably b/c she doesn't have the name cache the other two have and still has to make a living in the business, lol. Rogers was good, as always, and the actor paying the interim Capt was thoroughly enjoyable while making the most of his small part. The FBI woman is quite attractive, but a tad too biotchy. Why do competent, powerful women have to be sarcastic or just plain b!tches? Another tiresome cliche.
AL, Peter and Donna, you are not alone in your sentiments, and I especially appreciate how well Annabelle expressed them here. I wanted to say much the same.
That being said, I do understand that some are disappointed in the direction the show is taking now; understand it well b/c I myself have often been very disappointed in CI for the last several seasons. Thinking back, I remember also that I was just completely bummed re: the first episodes of S2 of my favorite program, The Wire. I didn't like new characters and different story lines and didn't think I'd continue to watch. However, I stuck it out and it went on to be an excellent season and the show was outstanding for another 3 years, indeed with different characters and story lines every single year! These changes may reinvigorate CI, so take heart.
I look forward to seeing if the new team may just bring back the aspects of the program that I enjoyed back in the day. Having missed most of last season I will reserve judgment for now, but from what I did see, Nichols is promising. Perhaps those of us that do continue to watch will find new things to appreciate about the show as it evolves, and I look forward to discussing them with those members that remain in the future.
And, go Blue Devils!
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 5, 2010 21:32:04 GMT -5
If the show continues along the same vein and proves to be watchable, then I'll be back after it goes onto Bravo in syndication next year to discuss the Nichols episodes.
I didn't see anyone in this episode "phoning it in". Geez, I wish we could find a better expression. That one is getting overused. It's a cliche now. Kind of like a bad rash that keeps coming back.
Anyway...I think Ross could have had more to do than run around looking as if he felt guilty and needed a really hot shower. Blame that one on the writer's or the production folks who needed to cut scenes. Ross was Ross. Just like always. And the scene between him and Bobby in his office was just right.
And Bobby...my, my. His old self, and yet not. Back in the game, and yet with that "I don't give a damn" attitude that we saw in TWAH. Nice combo, IMO.
Eames was the only one who seemed to care? I don't think we were watching the same show, but oh well...
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