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Post by Metella on Feb 20, 2007 10:34:19 GMT -5
restaging duals and whole battles on the anniversary of thier happening is a common thing here in the US - I would think they would be big in Europe also - such a rich history of amazing generals & heroic battles.
So that was a believable scene - as far it being rehearsed earlier and then acted out in full dress later.
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Post by Patcat on Feb 20, 2007 12:02:36 GMT -5
Just chiming in with Metalla--historical reenactments are a fairly big deal here in the U.S., and I believe there's an annual restaging of the Hamilton/Burr duel. I found it interesting that the judge--who seems to have been reasonably honorable throughout this mess--wound up portraying Hamilton, who, while not a complete innocent, was certainly the more honorable of the two men originally in the duel. Gore Vidal's entertaining attempts to rewrite history aside, Aaron Burr was a slimy, self-serving, evil man.
Patcat
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Post by Sirenna on Feb 20, 2007 12:20:49 GMT -5
Tons of re-enactments all over the British Isles. It's quite the tourist industry.
The most popular one and my personal favourite is the ameteur one: Guy Fawkes night, every November the fifth.
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Post by ragincajun on Feb 26, 2007 9:49:34 GMT -5
such insite janethyland, loved your post.
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Post by Patcat on Feb 26, 2007 14:09:22 GMT -5
Donna Murphy, who portrayed Mrs. Pagolis, is one of those actresses who should be a major star. She has a lovely singing voice: I first became aware of her when she starred in Stephen Sondheim's musical PASSION. But because musicals are few and far between these days and she doesn't fit the ideas of conventional beauty, she hasn't received the attention she deserves.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 26, 2007 14:41:40 GMT -5
Janet, how do you do it? Your post was so thought provoking. I will definitely be viewing Albatross again with your comments in my mind.
You mention Fate as an Ultimate Control. Do you think Goren believes this? Or do you believe he would not put any importance on the concept of fate? Personally, I feel that because he is so into the concept of personal responsibility that the concept of fate doesn't fit into his ideology. To him, things that "happen by inaction" (as you put it) are what irresponsible people call fate.
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Post by ragincajun on Apr 9, 2007 10:56:44 GMT -5
This was probably discussed before but after watching this again. I think the are we ok comment, was about Bobby wanting the tapes, and Eames upset that it will get out and ruin Mrs Pagolis' Career, and Bobby saying well she shouldn't have taped him in the first place. I guess watching it out of context with the TWAH, made it seem like the comment had nothing to do with the desk clearing.
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Post by deathroe on Apr 11, 2007 7:51:09 GMT -5
The first time I saw it I took it as Goren asking Eames if SHE were all right (that is one way to ask that) ...
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Post by Patcat on Apr 11, 2007 8:52:10 GMT -5
I think, as I think I've written before, that the "Are well all right?" query is wonderfully ambivalent in its writing and playing.
Patcat
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Post by deathroe on Apr 11, 2007 8:54:50 GMT -5
Ah, very nice, Patcat. Makes sense to me.
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Post by member727 on May 31, 2007 4:55:14 GMT -5
I just got around to watching this one last night (taped it and never got round to watching it). While I enjoyed it, the intro would have been so much better without a soundtrack (or fancy visual effects). And it was nice to have an Eames-centric episode for once Sorry if this has been covered already, I read half the thread and skipped to the end
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meggyd
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 112
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Post by meggyd on May 31, 2007 5:35:04 GMT -5
We finally got this episode in Australia. I liked it - except I did have a moment of bewilderment at the beginning where I thought I was watching an actual rock video and not the television show I thought I tuned in for! I thought the story was good and the interaction of the detectives was great.
Having read the comments on this thread well in advance of seeing the episode, I didn't see in it many of the points that others have made - it's amazing how much scope there is in each episode for people to interpret things in different ways. For example, the "are we all right" I wouldn't attribute to anything at all besides the fact that they were tearing down an idol of Eames, and that she was hostile and angry that it was being done. He was asking could she deal with his determination to pursue suspects and situations which were going to tarnish someone she looked up to. The "I hope so" I read as her hoping that she could overcome her anger at what was being done and deal with whatever they found, whatever the outcome. Thought the drink thing was overdone, to give fans a tidbit of the personal, but liked the fact that Bobby didn't presume to order Eames' drink for her.
I also didn't see any attraction between the gun expert and Goren. She didn't even look at him when she spoke to him! I liked the fact, though, that she was called on to provide the information and clues that he used later, rather than him just having read about the one of a kind gun or something. The way he absorbed and applied the things that she said later was vintage Goren. It makes things more credible.
Good to see Ross and his kids. I, like many others, am finding the character of Ross increasingly interesting. I didn't think it was cruel to put the kids to work collecting videos - it kept them busy seeing Ross couldn't leave the island with them, and probably would have made them feel important and part of things. Interesting response from Eames, a bit more forceful than expected?
It was disappointing that the motives of the killer were so quickly glossed over. I was shocked when he just said "you got me, I did it" - I kept expecting some twist to come along and expose that he really wasn't, to explain why it wasn't really dealt with. I guess they had other things they wanted to focus on in the episode, and could only fit so much into 45 minutes.
I know that a lot of these comments are similar to those already posted, but we get to see the episodes so late, it's still nice to put in my two cents worth, especially on episodes which are good.
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Post by Patcat on May 31, 2007 8:28:06 GMT -5
I felt that this was one of those episodes that needed a bit more time to examine both the killer's motives and the politician and her husband's relationship. I suspected some things clarifying both were left on the cutting room floor.
Patcat
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Post by Patcat on Jul 11, 2007 10:28:17 GMT -5
Today is the anniversary of the Hamilton/Burr duel. It occurred on July 11, 1804.
Patcat
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Post by tjara on Feb 3, 2009 8:38:28 GMT -5
I never cease to be amazed by this board. Different people get so many different senitments out of a single episode. So for what it's worth, here's my take.
"Albatross", "Purgatory", "Art" and "The Third Horseman" were among the first episodes I saw and for which I acutally tuned in to see them. Having CI on 2 networks and in 3 different timeslots makes for an interesting assembly of eps each week. Albatross I liked from the get-go.
First - I liked the musical intro. The pictures worked well with the music. Everytime I hear that song now I have to think about CI. For me the intro shows that much care was put into writing this episode. The facts about the gun, Pagolis playing with the to be murder weapon when he waits for his wife, picking the Burr-Hamilton Duel with it's historical implications...
Unaware of the timeline, I didn't pay that much attention to the bar scene, but rather got the feeling that they were at a difficult stage in their partnership (remember, the other ep I saw around that time was Purgatory!) and that their friction was aggrevated by the current case and therefore he wanted to know if they needed to talk about something. I still havn't seen eps 6:01-6:12, so I can't really comment on whether there was that much depth to that scene. But when I saw it, I wasn't really aware that Purgatory was to happen later and therefore I just saw it as simply a reflection on their strained relationship.
I think that this episode has many Bobby Goren-moments, and I really like that. He knows where the shot must have been from, what gun it was, he finds the spot where the killer was (and his traces), he notices the plants, he can read sign language, he's familiar with the Al Capone story, he's totally oblivious about the fact that Eames can't walk in on a naked suspect, the sidewalk scene with dead stop and mouth twist as he gets into thinking mode, Bobby is the one who comments that the case against Pagolis is all too watertight... that's all classic Bobby Goren. It might not be as perky as in some other episodes, but it's there and I like it.
Actually that scene of Goren & CSU technichian on the roof is one of my favorite CI scenes.
I don't think that Davo's (is it really Davo in English? The dubbed version has his name being Dave O.) confession is sudden. He's confronted with the proof that he's behind it, so what is he supposed to do? And I don't think it's only his own story of his beat-up mother that drives him into action, but also his love for Mrs. Pagolis and his hate for Mrs. Pagolis - and as far as that is concerned, the "intent"-part is covered quite well. Also, I didn't think Davo needed a huge aria, Goren had been taking him apart right from the beginning when he lied to him about the observation of Mr. Pagolis. Goren was testing where Davo's loyalities where, and they definitely weren't with Mr. Pagolis. And isn't it an irony that he does what he does because he's loyal to Mrs. Pagolis, when she obviously does not confide in him and that's what takes him down?
I think this ep also showed very nicely how trapped Mrs. Pagolis was in her relationship and marriage. Goren's statement about there being "gain" is right on... She had accustomed herself to inaction, because whatever she did, she was in a no-win scenario. She was well aware that her actions always had positivie and negative sideeffects, and she wasn't willing to take the negative ones. So when she saw the chance to gain something with only positive sideeffects, she did what she had herself accustomed to - she didn't act - not realizing that she had set up her own trap. Also, her character was consistent in that she didn't trust anyone, not the detectives, not her husband... and not Davo, the one she could've trusted.
Also - I didn't miss the aria. It was there, if not as pronounced as it usually is, but Goren did take her apart slowly by trying to figure out what she did know or what she must know. And in the end all it took was a pen to make her crumble.
I have no issue with Eames admiration for Mrs. Pagolis, either. Eames is not the typical feminist, but still from season one, we were given the impression that she will stand up for women's rights if needed. She voiced clear oppinions in "The Third Horseman" and dropped a revealing comment in "Badge" (two I can think of right now). And I was under the impression that Pagolis' commitment to women's causes really was what Eames deemed to be so admirable. Neither did I get the feeling that Ross was only rude to her - maybe only a little bit straightforward, but when Ross notices that Goren isn't that fond of Mrs. Pagolis, my impression is that Ross lets him feel "don't let it cloud your judgement".
I also think that this episode is so good because the "love-to-hate"-character gets away. Like in some other CI episodes, you get the feeling that there's many vicitims here and you really want George to be punished, but despite being a scumbag, he's not done wrong in a legal sense.
This ep really get's thumbs up from me.
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