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Post by chief on Dec 6, 2004 18:06:15 GMT -5
Sirenna and Nicholemarie, I think you may be confusing Caruso's personna in CSI Miami with his brief one year stint in Blue. Personally, if I didn't state in my first post on him, I do not like his character in CSI. of course, I don't like any of the characters in the original nor Miami. Especially that snobbish, screechy-voiced little blond know-it-all who was also annoting in The West Wing. Haven't bothered to watch CSINY yet, and probably won't, but I doubt that it will be much better. Let's face it, despite the popularity foisted on them by the TV series, (I understand forensic technology is one of the fastest growing college offerings) crime scene techs are not often involved in gun battles or arrests or any other of those "glamorous" aspects of police work. They arrive after the fact, do their thing and testify in court. Remember the botched job the LAPD crime scene techs did in the OJ trial? I know, it wasn't all their fault, but they did seem like a pack of bufoons. Wow, what a rant, and all I mean to say was I don't remember Caruso having his hands in his pockets all that much in Blue. Chief
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Post by chief on Dec 6, 2004 18:07:49 GMT -5
I think that might be buffoons.... chief
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Post by Observer2 on Dec 6, 2004 18:42:30 GMT -5
Actually, I’ve seen worse... But I think incompetence in a field we love – whether it’s our career field, or an amateur but intense interest – can be so irritating! I love writing, and I *have* watched CSI:NY – to my intense irritation and frustration. And I’ve ranted on about the writing on that show quite a bit. So your post seems pretty mild, as rants go. Sometime, on another thread, perhaps in the Squad Room area, I’d like to hear your take on whether their was actual, deliberate evidence tampering on the part of police in the OJ case. It has always seemed to me that they framed a guilty man, and the tainted quality of the evidence convinced the jury to acquit. (Of course, the prosecutor not knowing that if you soak a leather glove – in water *or* blood – and let it dry, it’s going to shrink significantly didn’t help much, either...)
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Post by Observer2 on Dec 6, 2004 18:44:37 GMT -5
...My question has to do with the whiney issue... ...I'll give you Semi-Detached, but otherwise I haven't seen him behaving in a sad-sack manner. Not even in Great Barrier, where he could've... ...in other episodes, he seems his same old Goren self in terms of how he related to the suspects... ...I also wonder if interpretations given by people on boards like this one concerning one or two episodes haven't skewed perceptions. LOCIfan, I think I basically agree with you here. I think Goren has had a few reactions that have really stood out to people, and may have affected their sense of the whole season so far. And then other episodes, such as Magnificat, where that kind of reaction didn’t show up (though some other interesting ones did), don’t get noticed as much or remembered as clearly. Observer2: Hypervigilance to non-verbal affect isn't uncommon. Children of alcoholics, the mentally ill, parents who fight a lot, people suffering from PTSD, etc... are commonly found to be hypervigilant to non-verbal affect (which isn't a diagnosis/disorder per se, but a symptom common to several diagnoses/disorders). As a hypervigilant individual, I can see how an exceptionally good actor would appeal to you, but it's hard to believe that D'Onofrio is the only actor around who works on multi-levels for you. (And this is coming from another individual who's also been clinically found hypervigiliant to non-verbal affect.) I think subjective, personal likes and dislikes -- irrespective of hypervigilance -- come into play here... I’m well aware that hypervigilance is a symptom, not a disorder – I’ve corrected people on that point before, though it may have been back on the other board. I was using the term “diagnosed” in a somewhat loose/casual way as a shorthand for letting people know that it was identified by a qualified professional, not something I just decided I had. It’s true that some degree of hypervigilance isn’t all that uncommon, but it varies in intensity (and in how much it focuses on non-verbal affect). Kids with “parents who fight a lot” might develop some degree of hypervigilance; but unless there were other traumatic factors, or the fights included physical violence, I would be surprised if they developed anything like the same degree of hypervigilance as someone who was actively abused. Of course, you’re right that subjective, personal likes and dislikes come into play in why D’Onofrio’s acting stands out so much to me. But it’s also true that very few actors engage with the part to the level that he does, so that what is happening with the character is consistently reflected right down to unconscious and neurological levels. Probably one of the ways personal preference enters into it is that many actors avoid subconsciously contradicting their characters by being somewhat emotionally walled off. Anthony LaPaglia, the lead in Without a Trace, comes to mind. He gives you this sad, evocative external affect, and the deeper levels are contained, defended, so you can read very little other than the fact that he’s keeping his feelings contained (which is information in itself). That works with the character – and really hooks a lot of female fans. But I get a bit tired of it. I prefer D’Onofrio’s depth of affect. In any case, I’d be interested in hearing about other actors that you find give consistently convincing performances on the level of non-verbal affect. ...ok, April in Eosphoros was overweight. But, she didn't have cats!! Also, the actress who portrayed her was terrific AND fit with the fact that the real-life granddaughter in the Murray-O'Hare case was obese... Yeah, I thought the use of an overweight actor in that case was appropriate. I wrote about the weight issue on the Eosphoros thread on the Universal board, but apparently forgot to post it over here. Here’s part of my take on it: I think people concerned with how heavy women are portrayed on television can learn from looking at what ethnic minorities have had to deal with. African-Americans, for instance, used to be very rare on television – and in crime dramas the vast majority of Aftrican-American characters were criminals. But the solution was not to stop showing African-American criminals. The key was to begin to balance that, both by also showing Euro-American criminals, and by having more African-American characters in positive and incidental roles. Of course, with overweight issues it’s not that simple. Barring unusual medical conditions, psychologically healthy people are generally not morbidly obese. It’s too uncomfortable a way to live for a psychologically healthy person to put up with it. But many basically healthy, functional people are moderately overweight – so I do think we should see more positive and incidental characters in that weight range. And I was pleased to see exactly that kind of positive incidental character in Inert Dwarf. The supervisor of the nurses was a successful, apparently competent woman, who just happened to be overweight, to a degree that is not unusual in an active person who moves into a more sedentary supervisory position.
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Post by Sirenna on Dec 6, 2004 19:27:24 GMT -5
...I don't like any of the characters in the original nor Miami. Especially that snobbish...know-it-all who was also in The West Wing. Haven't bothered to watch CSINY yet, and probably won't, but I doubt that it will be much better. ...crime scene techs are not often involved in...those "glamorous" aspects of police work. They arrive after the fact, do their thing and testify in court. Remember the botched job the LAPD crime scene techs did in the OJ trial? I know, it wasn't all their fault, but they did seem like a pack of bufoons. Chief LOL! I don't like her either. When she stares at the gun she's analyzing I think of Frankenstein or a snake and its prey. I also don't like the ME on csimiami who talks to the dead. She skipped an important class in ME school about the capabilities of dead people - maybe she thought she was ME D school and is still a bit confused There is a thread on CSI:NY - (other TV shows area) and a few posters seemed to strongly dislike it. Although I got the sense that the show was assessed more in terms of the competition it posed to LO:ci's ratings. I didn't have a strong reaction to it one way or another. It was very ordinary with all the cliches and shortcuts regular detective TV offers. I can imagine regular crime drama is probably extremely annoying and frustrating to watch for someone in the profession.
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Post by Sirenna on Dec 6, 2004 19:41:58 GMT -5
All right, you asked for it...plagiarism isn't confined to professional and academic works. If you use someone else's original material without asking, and especially without crediting them, then you are stealing. Sure, most of us are posting for fun, but I don't think that disclaims our ownership of our thoughts and ideas, even if copyright law allows the owner of a message board the exclusive rights to all of the posts on their board (which is what I think is correct). Thanks, I feel so validated now. But just to clarify, you only need to quote me on the good points. Community is an evolving, morphing characteristic of a message board. The more people that join the more friction is likely to be felt among member no matter how many rules are posted in the FAQ. It's always a good idea to treat board people that way we would expect to be treated. Plagarism, on the other hand, is definately off-limits both legally and morally assuming the person is deceptively using the content as if it were their own original thought. This wasn't what Nicolemarie was doing. she was doing somewhat what the writers for GQ and NYT did. They just pulled what was posted, gave the posters' handle most of the time. But didn't need to seek any permission from us. In other words, if you have a story idea, invention, etc I wouldn't post it on a message board unless you don't mind if people take it and play with it further.
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Post by chief on Dec 7, 2004 3:21:37 GMT -5
Thank you Observer2 and Sirenna. I will have to give the OJ case some thought in regard to your statements, I'll take a look at the squadroom and see. I do have some rather definite opinions on that though. I am glad to find that I am not the only person who dislikes the screechy blonde. I was accused of mysogeny when I mentioned my objections to her personna here at home. chief
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Post by NicoleMarie on Dec 11, 2004 19:53:48 GMT -5
My, my, my! Just dropping a note to say sorry to have caused a bit of a ruckus! I'm new at this and still learning. I learn something new everyday!
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Post by chief on Dec 12, 2004 7:28:16 GMT -5
Nicolemarie, In my likewise rookie mind you are doing a fine job. keep on posting. chief
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Post by Sirenna on Dec 12, 2004 17:41:14 GMT -5
Sirenna, As for your earlier post: Sirenna, you’ve made the same error here that TV Guide did... reading about network executives and turning them into a producer. You don’t need to defend the producers and casting folk involved in Criminal Intent. I have not been a big fan of network execs Whoa there! You've read much more into my post than was ever there. I must admit I'm at a loss to know how you came to the conclusions you did with this one! You've always assumed the relationship between network and lo:ci was a dichotomy but is it really? I think Dick Wolfe (who can stick up for himself!) probably acts as a go-between for the creative side (writers) and the business side (network) and has probably gone to bat more often than not for Rene's team. After all, he put his money on the line to produce all four series. Of course he has a vested interest in keeping the shows as true to their original and highly successful vision which seems to have been always to fearlessly tackle controversial current events. As I've posted before nothing is ever so black or white in reality and this is especially true in business.
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Dec 14, 2004 11:01:44 GMT -5
Wow, there are some book-length posts on here! Fun stuff! Quick question re: the whiney thing I've read in some of the posts here: When was Goren whiney in Semi-Detached? I guess I missed that, but I still like that episode, especially the ending. I like that Dick Wolf came to the defense of the show and put down all the fumor-mills going in the tabloids (stupid tabloids! ) It must have really chapped his butt to be reading all that stuff. And I agree with Sirenna, there are a lot of players in the madness that you have to have to create a series. They have to work together, each getting out of it what his part of the business requires, for the shows to come together. I think I'd be amazed at the sheer volume of the amount of meeting, planning, buying, selling, pitching, and all the other craziness that has to go between the Networks and the Creative/producing teams for these TV shows. No wonder they get stressed out! Yet I'm just an observer, I have no first-hand knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes of making and producing a series. I'd like to be a fly on the wall though...
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Post by chief on Dec 15, 2004 7:11:03 GMT -5
I am a bit perplexed. I hope no one mistakenly took my comment on the "whiney" blonde in CSI Miami/West Wing as referring to Goren. I may have missed something in another post, but i don't ever remember his being whiney. Further on the candidates for replacenent of his eminence. Frankly one of my attractions to Criminal Intent is that Goren makes it rather campy. I suggest a good replacenent for him would be Robin Williams. Now I will go to my hideaway. chief
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Post by janetcatbird on Dec 15, 2004 9:15:40 GMT -5
Oh thank God, I'm not alone! I have said elsewhere that while D'Onofrio is a fine actor, he occassionally pushes hammy--to my mind at least. (Oh, you should have seen Observer's response to that about 11 months ago! No hard feelings, I look back and laugh, but for the sake of the board I won't repeat the exact phrase I used!) Again, not all the time, and it's personal taste, but whatever.
Robin Williams--while he can do serious dramatic acting, I doubt he'd want this kind of a role. I mean, how many opportunities would he have to show all his talents, unless they show live mic night at the local Cop Pub? Besides, I'm not sure I'd want a constant dosage of heavy Williams.
(If the flak starts up again, can I join you in the bomb shelter? Wink wink)
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Post by Sirenna on Dec 15, 2004 10:00:24 GMT -5
I think, with a few exceptions, the very die-hard-he-can-do-no-wrong fans are on vdofans and let's hope there they stay! He does tend to over do it sometimes. Want when he wen to bat for John was an example. As a result of that scene with Carver, Goren came off as a bit burned out, teetering on the edge of self control. Not whiny exactly but a bit of a loser.
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MelTex
Detective
"I want a Jonny 7 all-in-one gun..."
Posts: 336
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Post by MelTex on Dec 15, 2004 11:14:28 GMT -5
OK yea I have to agree with that on the "Want" episode. He did come off kinda extreme-overload and tired whiney. And the fact he was defending a Hannibal Lecter-wanna-be..lol...really made me wish Eames would have smacked him upside the head. And he can over-do the 'quirks' sometimes, making me say, "Ok common now...lets get on with the case, guys."
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