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Post by quietfireca on Jul 15, 2008 19:04:11 GMT -5
I thought they dealt with the victims very superficially. Even the victims' significant others didn't seem broken up about the deaths. Maybe because there were children involved they didn't want to milk the tragedy.
Or maybe I'm so busy watching G/E, I miss the emotional depth of the story.
Naw.
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Post by deathroe on Jul 15, 2008 19:42:28 GMT -5
Well, that's the trouble. They're using G/E for the emotional depth rather than use the crime stories. Hence, "new school CI."
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Post by Patcat on Jul 15, 2008 19:58:23 GMT -5
The one thing I completely accepted was the idea that people would kill to get their kids in a preschool. Things like that have happened.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 15, 2008 20:11:43 GMT -5
Hmmm. . .about that parting line. . . Maybe Bobby is starting to worry about what a good manipulator he is. That'd be interesting, wouldn't it? I took Goren's response as being more addressed to Eames' questioning stare than to Marla. When Marla said "I thought you were my friend." Eames gave Goren a "what was that all about?" look. Bobby looked pretty guilty/uncomfortable. He didn't want Eames thinking the wrong thing?
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Post by Metella on Jul 15, 2008 20:17:38 GMT -5
I can see where you got that interpratation DonnaJo - so you may be right. I got from it - his breaking his "tie" with her, that he had to create to get the gun ... and it was a way to lay the break out in the open and "snap out of it" for him. To convince people in that state, you have to be "honest" in the moment; kinda like .... acting So it also takes a process to back out of it mentally. Well, that was just my take on it - and once out of it - he made that underwhelming statement for the victims.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 15, 2008 20:27:31 GMT -5
What I noticed, even more than the last line, was how, in the closing shot, Bobby is turning his back to the others and walking toward Janine and the teacher, who are tied up. You can just barely see him start to lean over to talk to Janine as the screen fades to black.
This confrontation was more like "Phantom" than "Siren Call". He wasn't quite as steady as in "Phantom", but there was no fear in him, like there was in "Siren Call". To me, he seemed trying to keep control of the situation, not out of fear for himself, but because there were two innocent hostages in the room with them.
Kind of like the kids being on the bed in "Phantom". He kept himself between Marla and the hostages. I believe that is why he backed off from grabbing the gun the first time. If he had grabbed for it and she managed to get a shot off, one of the other two women could have been wounded. He wouldn't have wanted to chance that happening, and so he backed off when Marla told him to. Also, in "Siren Call", he knew Ray was at the end of his rope and suicidal. A guy like that is a lot harder to talk down and Bobby was in very real fear for his own life that time. Marla was a sniveling brat. Facing her down wasn't the same as facing Ray, or even Gerald Rankin, from "Phantom".
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 16, 2008 6:10:10 GMT -5
I was thinking that this "backing out mentally" and "breaking his tie with her" that you explain so well, Metella, was also evident with Nelda in "Semi-Detached." Nelda wasn't holding a gun, but she was played and betrayed by Goren, who felt compelled to tell her "I didn't mean for you to see it" (his feelings, his friendship?). I noticed the similarity in that parting scene right away. Also Bobby's guilt and conflict in having to "act" or be "dishonest." Even as a necessary part of the job, Goren detests lying to emotionally messed up women(even though he's pretty good at it). OB, I agree that Goren was all about protecting those two bound hostages. Eames was also. The dynamic changed noticeably when Goren told Eames that Jeanine and Miss Chestnut were in the room. Goren's interaction with Marla was also reminiscent of "Smile," and how he handled the schizoid Mom holding a knife to her daughter's throat. Another interesting "Goren reaction" was when Marla sobbed "No one has time to make a new friend." Bobby's look told me that he could relate.
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Post by Summerfield on Jul 16, 2008 10:18:15 GMT -5
What I liked about the episode was the interaction of G/E...again. Yey, they seemed to be back on track. I think the problem with Marla was that her character wasn't very deep. I don't know if it was the actress, but Marla was just flat. She didn't evoke much sympathy. We got that Marla was trying to fit in and please the MIL, but we really never saw how hard she tried. I would have liked to have seen MIL at the hostage scene. Let MIL witness what her actions caused. "We were...blissful." Cracked me up.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 16, 2008 10:53:08 GMT -5
H-m-m. I liked the confrontation scene. I liked how well Goren and Eames worked together--someone has already mentioned how smoothly Goren let Eames know more hostages were involved and where they were and how she reacted. I like that the writers didn't have Goren start to blubber about how he was without a mother during his childhood and how much it hurt him. I thought this was Goren at his best. He entered a situation, read it, and dealt with it.
Patcat
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Post by quietfireca on Jul 16, 2008 11:22:12 GMT -5
H-m-m. I liked the confrontation scene. I liked how well Goren and Eames worked together-- I thought this was Goren at his best. He entered a situation, read it, and dealt with it. Patcat There were lots of glances between them as they both moved in front of the kids lying on the floor. Yes, they were in sync. The years of experience together weren't blunted by recent events. Whew!
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Post by SarahIvy on Jul 16, 2008 11:45:58 GMT -5
I know we can't go back to Season 1&2 and I don't want to - but I just done' see where this is going to be honest and consistant with the original characters & where they really would have gone and how they would have developed with the real creators of CI. I am fine with all fans who still like it - hey, I am still coming to this board and it is closing on a decade now; so I get it and I am not trying to talk any fans out of loving it ...... I am just disappointed and sad to loose what felt like friends in Goren and Eames and not to just have entertainment. I still come here and read but rarely sign in, but I had to get myself logged in just so I could quote this because it quite perfectly sums up how I feel about the show myself. I've found reading discussions here are FAR more interesting and complex than the show itself anymore, and I think that's a very bad turn (for the show, not the clever folks chatting about it). It used to be excellent discussion of a fascinating show, and now it's fascinating discussion but I honestly feel like watching the show itself is a shallow afterthought. Oh, and I found this episode profoundly boring.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 16, 2008 20:57:25 GMT -5
Bobby's comments about New York being a tough place to live, and that look he had on his face when Marla said everyone was too busy to make a new friend spoke louder than anything he's ever said about being alone.
The only time Marla really got to me was when she was crying and asking how her MIL could love her son and not her. The way she sobbed out "I made him" was so desperate. It didn't sound spoiled as much as it sounded as though she felt the part of her that was in Henry wasn't good enough for her MIL and it hurt her deeply. Which, of course, was probably true. MIL couldn't stand the thought of who Henry's mother was. As Bobby put it, she saw herself as a "second" mother, not merely a grandmother.
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eva
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 86
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Post by eva on Jul 17, 2008 3:52:36 GMT -5
Marla had another line that I found kind of sad:
"It's just me and the Nannys"
Not only the words, the way she says it, too. Like she is trying not only to convince others that she is okay with being in the situation she is in, but herself, too. After all, her mother in law treats her more like Henrys Nanny, than his mother. But I do think- like most here- that there wasn't enough backstory regarding Marla.
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Post by quietfireca on Jul 17, 2008 19:26:38 GMT -5
the way she says it, too. Like she is trying not only to convince others that she is okay with being in the situation she is in, but herself, too. I think that describes her well Eva. She came across as resigned to her lot in life. Who knew what was really simmering under that cute blonde exterior? Do y'all think the MIL suspected or was she too self-absorbed as she scraped Marla off the bottom of her shoe?
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Post by Patcat on Jul 21, 2008 7:56:23 GMT -5
While watching the repeat of this Saturday night, I was struck by how well Goren works during that final confrontation--the duet--with Marla. In addition to getting Eames in a situation where she could get the kids out, letting Eames know how many other hostages there were, and getting himself between Marla and the hostage, Goren also pulled up one of the window blinds so that other cops could see in the room (and, I guess, put a sniper in position to take out Marla).
Patcat
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